AuthorTopic: Seishirou-san...good or evil?  (Read 16629 times)

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moezychan

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #60 on: August 23 2005, 07:04 am »
Actually that was Syaoran and Fai, not Kuro. Yuuko ended their fight with the arrow, when Kurogane went to kill Seishirou, after he found out what happened to Fai.  :keke:
But I think Seishirou knew it was a game world, so knew he wasn't really killing them.
Yuuko wouldn't have allowed that.

After reading Tokyo Babylon and X, I can't see any way that Seishirou is not evil.
His job is to kill people after all, and he has no feelings whatsoever for anyone until later with Subaru.
I'm still saying he's evil, but that doesn't mean Yuuko can't have some hold over him to keep him in check! And that doesn't mean he is actively out to get any of them. 

Your right. Thanks for correcting me.

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #61 on: December 07 2005, 01:45 pm »
Spoilers

Sei-chan is evil incarnate, and he's head over heals in love with his Subaru-kun, who is one messed up mother-

Shut ya mouth!

Only talkin' about Su-kun.

We can dig it.

Because Subaru has issues within issues. As does Seishiro. And granted, the vast majority of Su-kun's issues are caused by Sei-chan, but they still belong together.  And Clamp earns a special place in hell for not filling in that one speech bubble in Sei-chan's death scene in X- the speech bubble that everyone -knows- is supposed to have Sei-chan's confession of love to Subaru. But it is empty, leaving room for doubt on what exactly he tells Subaru. Of course, this semi-confession only messes with Subaru's head even more.

So, yeah, Seishiro is evil. I can't imagine a world where Seishiro isn't evil, or at least completely indifferent towards everyone except Subaru. It would completely be against his character.
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Offline Ruby Chan

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #62 on: January 19 2006, 05:07 am »
I don't think Seishirou has ever been evil in a CLAMP manga! His behaviour has always been subject to circumstances....Sakurazukamori, vampire hunter...

I think it all depends on his life in all the mangas...on how he's brought up. If brought up to think power is good, that's what he'll think. If taught that emotions are weakness, then he'll be emotionally stunted.

But never evil. He didn't hurt Syaoran until he got in his way, ne? He doesn't hurt people just for fun....definitely not in Tsubasa, at least.


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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #63 on: February 16 2006, 02:48 pm »
I'd kinda like to apologize for my previous post in this thread. It was really fangirl-y. My only excuse is that I had just read Tokyo Babylon and X, and was riding high on pure fangirl joy.

I don't think Seishirou has ever been evil in a CLAMP manga! His behaviour has always been subject to circumstances....Sakurazukamori, vampire hunter...

I think it all depends on his life in all the mangas...on how he's brought up. If brought up to think power is good, that's what he'll think. If taught that emotions are weakness, then he'll be emotionally stunted.

But never evil. He didn't hurt Syaoran until he got in his way, ne? He doesn't hurt people just for fun....definitely not in Tsubasa, at least.

It's taken me a while to respond to this, but I thought I would now.

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CLAMP's view of morality has always been very individualistic; what's 'good' and 'bad' depends greatly on what the exact situation at hand is. Yes, I believe that X/TB Sei-chan was emotionally scarred and traumatized from his childhood. In TB/X, he was raised to be a sociopathic murderer from birth, and he became a sociopathic murderer. His mother was also a sociopathic murderer who had him kill her when he was fifteen. And CLAMP takes this into consideration. I think he loved Subaru, or, at the very least, what he felt for Subaru was the closest he could ever get to love. Seishirou was extremely obsessed with owning Subaru. Their mutual love/obsession is actually the scariest, most powerful obsession I've ever read of in any anime/manga, much less seen in real life. That obsession, according to CLAMP, is why Seishirou had Subaru kill him; so that Subaru would always belong to him and only him, because of the connection that would created between them by the murder. But CLAMP makes a very big point in X that everybody, no matter what they have been through or what they have done, has the capability and right to love somebody else. (For those of us who have read X, the point isn't just made in Seishirou/Subaru relationship, but also in the Nataku/Karen relationship.) When Seishirou tells Subaru that he is incapable of love or of any emotion whatsoever, we are not really supposed to believe him. CLAMP clearly believes that NO ONE is incapable of love or emotion.

I see Seishirou as CLAMP's testing of their own philosophy. CLAMP has many times espoused (I love using that word) the belief that everybody has the equal right to determine the course of their own life; you should choose your own path, and follow that path no matter what anybody else says/feels. You can see this again and again in Tokyo Babylon, X, and most recently in xxxHOLiC. Seishirou does exactly that. He says that, if every choice is equally valid, then death is just as valid as life. Does he fit in CLAMP's philosophy? Yes. Is he evil? Yes, I think so. Does CLAMP see him as such? I believe so. But neither they nor I believe evil is inherent; evil, just like good, is all about choices.

Given that, Seishirou's actions in TB/X are still not excusable. Seishirou knows full well that his actions are wrong. He tells Subaru when they first meet that his (Seishirou's) heart is the exact inverse of Subaru's, who is pure and kind. He tells Hokuto when he kills her that he does not deserve her trust. Clearly he does not consider himself innocent or blameless in what he does. He is under no illusions about himself. He just doesn't care. He was taught to kill, true, but even when he has a choice of killing or not, he chooses to kill. Only once (in TB/X) does he choose not to kill: Subaru.

I personally think that in Tsubasa he will, in a sense, end up as evil; at worst, he will be a stumbling stone. I don't think he has any connection to Fei Wong Reed. At most, his connection to Yuuko is that he sold her his eye. He's just out to find Subaru; that is his only desire and goal, his obsession. Whether he's out to kill Subaru or marry him and have lots of smex is still up in the air. (Personally, I vote for the second option.) But in all fairness to Sei-chan, Syaoran is also out only for his mission. I think that that's Sei-chan's purpose in Tsubasa; to serve as a counterpoint to Syaoran, and have us ask ourselves exactly how different Syaoran actually is from Seishirou. (One of the scariest threads of thoughts I've ever had is what exactly Syaoran would do if he had choose between Sakura or his other traveling companions. He clearly would die for Sakura, but would he completely abandon Fai and Kurogane for her sake? Probably. But I'm getting off topic.)
« Last Edit: February 20 2006, 07:01 am by LadyUltima »
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Offline Ruby Chan

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #64 on: February 20 2006, 04:48 am »
LadyUltima, that has to be the best, and most accurate view on Seishirou I've ever read...in my opinion anyway. The only thing I disagree on is that he'll end up as an evil stumbling stone. I think that whether he is 'good' or 'evil' will come simply down to this....

What is Subaru's part in Tsubasa, and what's the deeper reason behind Sei-chan searching for him?

Only if he find the twins will we truly know what his intentions are, and as such, we cannot judge him yet.


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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #65 on: February 20 2006, 05:26 am »
LadyUltima, that has to be the best, and most accurate view on Seishirou I've ever read...in my opinion anyway. The only thing I disagree on is that he'll end up as an evil stumbling stone. I think that whether he is 'good' or 'evil' will come simply down to this....

What is Subaru's part in Tsubasa, and what's the deeper reason behind Sei-chan searching for him?

Only if he find the twins will we truly know what his intentions are, and as such, we cannot judge him yet.

Thanks for the compliment. I will have to give you that we don't know for sure and won't know for sure until we find out the backstory. I believe that Sei-chan will end up as perhaps -less- evil in Tsubasa than he was in TB/X; even still, Seishirou will do anything and everything to get what he wants. He has no inhibitions except his own desires. He will never give up Sakura's feather, unless it somehow fit his own designs or if he had no more use for it.

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I do find it interesting that Seishirou in Tsubasa is apparently searching for 'eternal life,' when in TB/X he so easily chose death again and again. That actually gives me some hope for him. Gah, the more I write and think about it, actually the more hope I get for him. But then again, I've always wanted him and Subaru to actually get together and have some kind of happiness.

One thing I don't get is why in so many fanfictions people have TRC!Subaru kill Hokuto. I'm like, what the hell? I could see some absolutely horrible situations in which Subaru MIGHT POSSIBLY do it, like if Hokuto perhaps tried to kill Seishirou or something. (Subaru is, in his own way, just as insane as Seishirou.) But it happens in all but one or two TRC!Subaru/Seishirou fanfics I've read. (Plus, I don't think Hokuto would ever kill Seishirou, even if only for Subaru's sake. Remember, in TB/X she chose to die both in order to prevent Seishirou from killing Subaru and to give Seishirou and Subaru a chance together. She knows that Subaru's life would be meaningless to him without Seishirou.)

Oh, and when I said, "At worst he will end up a stumbling stone"? I meant 'at best,' not 'at worst.'  :sweatdrop:
« Last Edit: February 20 2006, 07:02 am by LadyUltima »
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moezychan

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #66 on: February 20 2006, 06:58 am »
Not to sound rude, but please remember that not everyone on here has seen X, like myself for instance, and these facts count as spoilers. Could you be kind enough to put this information in spoiler tags because the more I read, the more I get confused. I would appreciate it if you did this. Thank you.

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #67 on: February 20 2006, 07:03 am »
Gah, I'm sorry. You're completely right. I've put them in spoiler tags. (smacks self in head)
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moezychan

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #68 on: February 20 2006, 07:04 am »
Thank you; I appreciate it!

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #69 on: February 21 2006, 04:18 pm »
Um, guys... *sweatdrop* I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, but.. I was on livejournal *cough* lurking *cough* and I SWEAR someone's avatar had a picture of Hokuto on it drawn in the TRC/xxxHolic style!! I mean, the picture *was* a colored picture, so it may just be a random drawing that CLAMP did, but since it was drawn TRC/xxxHolic style, I'm just freaking out!!! XD XD But again, maybe it was just a random pic and my love for Hokuto is blinding me... *sniff*

But if it ISN'T a random pic, could it be a sign of a reappearance of Sei-chan in TRC?!?! O.O Then again, she didn't look very vampire-ish... ((Seriously what is up with that? Why are they vampires now? I mean, that's awesome, I love vampires, but where the heck ARE they??))
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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #70 on: February 21 2006, 04:56 pm »
Oh, Seishirou will definitely turn back up in TRC. After all, he has Sakura's feather; there's really no question of it to me.

And hmm... Sounds like an interesting pic. But then again, I also lurve Hokuto. Any pic of her is great.

And... yeah. I've wondered a lot about the whole vampire thing. Subaru a vampire? Will the guy never get a break? Le sigh.
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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #71 on: February 22 2006, 12:05 pm »
Oh, Seishirou will definitely turn back up in TRC. After all, he has Sakura's feather; there's really no question of it to me.

And hmm... Sounds like an interesting pic. But then again, I also lurve Hokuto. Any pic of her is great.

And... yeah. I've wondered a lot about the whole vampire thing. Subaru a vampire? Will the guy never get a break? Le sigh.

I agree.. Seishirou HAS to show up again. If he doesn't: PLOT HOLE! XD

Random speculation: What if the feather Seishirou is holding has a *certain* memory? You know? What if it was actually a really important one? I don't really know how to convey this in text... But what if it has a memory regarding Fei Wong Reed or something important about her and Syao Syao or something? But I guess that would be kinda pointless to the story because obviously Seishirou wouldn't know that and he DEFINITELY wouldn't work with Fei Wong Reed (which would be the only reason he'd withold a certain memory from her..). Sei-chan is his OWN boss!

Heh heh, and I actually kinda like Subaru being a vampire! XD I mean how CUTE is that? Just imagine SUBARU trying to feed on someone:

Subaru: *spots prey* Hnn... *reluctantly starts running to him*

Random lady: *accidentally steps in Subaru's way*

Subaru: *bumps into her* Ah! Sumimasen! *bow* Sumimasen! *bow* Sumimaseeeen!!! *boooow*

Heh heh, if you ask me, I think if Subaru couldn't find anyone to feed on he should just ask Seishirou! XD He'd be more than willing, I'm sure.
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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #72 on: February 22 2006, 12:47 pm »
Ha! If Subaru asked, Sei-chan would tease him about becoming kinky. Of course, Sei-chan would be perfectly willing to let Subaru bite him... (snort snort giggle giggle) 
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I think Sei-chan actually wants Subaru to bite him and turn him into a vampire... at least, that's my theory. The whole eternal life thing. And it would be about as sweet as Sei-chan would ever get. That's my theory about what Sei-chan wants under the best of circumstances.
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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #73 on: February 22 2006, 12:57 pm »
Ha! If Subaru asked, Sei-chan would tease him about becoming kinky. Of course, Sei-chan would be perfectly willing to let Subaru bite him... (snort snort giggle giggle)
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I think Sei-chan actually wants Subaru to bite him and turn him into a vampire... at least, that's my theory. The whole eternal life thing. And it would be about as sweet as Sei-chan would ever get.

I agree! XD In fact, I bet that's why Seishirou can't find Subaru! He probably made one too many kinky jokes and Subaru cried and ran away! XD I have one of my little random scripts for that, but it can't be posted here for obvious reasons! XD

But SERIOUSY speaking, how cute and romantic would that be if Sei really does want Subaru to bite him for that reason? How cute would it be if Sei-chan were so in love with Subaru-kun that he would suffer the pain of eternal life on earth just to be with him? *fangirl squeal*

*cough* Fanfiction, anyone? *cough*

This is gonna sound really lame, but I hope that Subaru shows up in Tsubasa in time for CLAMP to show us his and Seishirou's relationship in the world of Tsubasa. The lame part is that I really want them to do that so I know that in one world ((the world of Tsubasa)) they are still together! ((Considering they were screwed in TB and X...)) Unless of course, CLAMP screws them over in Tsubasa, too.. But ASSUMING they're happy or become happy, that's how I feel.
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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #74 on: February 22 2006, 01:07 pm »
Here ye go. I lurve this fic. It just fits so perfectly. Enjoy. (Spoilers for X and TB)
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But it doesn't really explain why Su is running. Rather big hole. But it's still so sweet.
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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #75 on: February 22 2006, 01:12 pm »
Here ye go. I lurve this fic. It just fits so perfectly. Enjoy. (Spoilers for X and TB)
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But it doesn't really explain why Su is running. Rather big hole. But it's still so sweet.

XD LOL! Thanks, I wasn't expecting for there to already be one! I'll read this tonight and get back to you tomorrow!

Erm, now get back on-topic, everyone! Seishirou sure is pretty whether he's good OR evil, ne? Very pretty. Or "handsome" if you're picky about your adjectives...
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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #76 on: April 12 2006, 01:09 am »
Based upon his personality in X and his actions in TRC, I must say that he is evil.  Not as bad as most villians but evil nonetheless.

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Re: Seishirou-san...good or evil?
« Reply #77 on: April 16 2006, 05:08 am »
maybe he's good he does have sakura's feather but i think there was a good reason why he holds it he's looking for the vampires right? i guess when he finally found the vampires i guess he'll return the feather to it's rightful owner since he couldn't control it's power but...hmmm...if  he's working with the badguy....he should just give the feather to fei but he didn't oh well....mind as well wait the end of the manga....