S+S or F+K?

[suu_no_clover]

I stand by my statement about that forum, though I haven't been around very long. ^^; They have been nothing but welcoming - a nice change of pace, really.

Sorry, again, for going off-topic.

[Cherry tiger]

I'm going to give another perspective for the people on tsubasachronicle.net, cause the one whom Kjesta quoted is actually very nice... When she claimed she was homophobic, what she meant was she really isn't into shounen ai or shoujo ai. In that sense, I don't think there's anything wrong... they all have their own preferences, and besides... she never really bashed KuroFye because they're shounen-ai, she just didn't prefer them. In fact, I don't remember that particualr person claiming, (like all the other weird members there as well) that KuroFye can't be gay or KuroFye must not happen and all that kind of stuff. It's her prefernce and she doesn't prefer it.

I know that people must be open minded, especially seeing as CLAMP is very open about this. But who are we to force people? We should be able to show that we do have open mindedness and not only does shounen-ai not bother us, it's also quite interesting. Someday, I do hope she sees that shounen or shoujo ai is not that bad... but until then, telling people off or insulting them especially in a different forum is actually rather mean. I'm sorry, but I thought quoting her from there was a bit too much, especially since she isn't one of those who say KuroFye can't be together. She may support KuroTomo and go crazy over small little KuroTomo things and tends to put it into people's faces... but she has never said KuroFye cannot be together (even though she cannot see the pairing as possible, she has never bashed them). So I think it's wrong to judge people without really knowing them well.

If you want to talk about judging forums, I might say I judged this forum as well. But that's going off topic... what I'm trying to say that you shouldn't judge people for what they think and like, unless you really know them. I feel really sorry for her, seeing that people have been taking her statements the wrong way. That board really isn't that bad... there are quite a few KuroFye fans still there who continue to root for their favourite coupling and I applaud them for bearing with the crazy real homophobic people.

[mela]

You may say all that, Cherry Tiger, but at the end of the day that person made comments that will offend people. It's all good and dandy that it is her opinion, that isn't going to stop people from getting mad about it. Personally I find it really sad that in this day an age people still make comments like that. When you take away the language barrier and all that, shounen-ai and shoujo-ai still boils down to gay and lesbian. This isn't even about KF or her not liking the pairing or whatever. It's about her making comments that even though might not have meant them, were still put out there and they hurt others.

Point is, people are going to interpret things in different ways, which is why things should always be thought out before you say them. Especially when you are saying things that might offend and hurt other people.

[Zettai daijoubu]

Yeah, actually. Whether something is canon or not is a fact. Whether something is boring is an objective opinion. And I've seen plenty there. Please, let's not start this again.

why are we talking about tsubasachronicle.net when this is CapturedWings!!! and yes i agree with Jeannette.. please don't this again..

SS of KF is a matter of our own preference neither is threatening either.. so please don't get too upset if others do not prefer what you prefer or neither should you 'attack' the other 'camp'..

[Rekall]

S/S fans have had pretty much the entire manga (and a whole OTHER manga) dedicated to their relationship while K/F have taken the backseat. Now that K/F is taking more of a prominent position for the time being, people are going to be excited and want to talk about it more than they will about S/S.

I agree.  I think in part S/S is suffering from over exposure. I mean they just spent 120+ chapters of TRC together and they spent most of CCS together as well (which was 12 volumes but I can't remember right now in what volume Syaoran showed up).  Plus a lot of time has passed since they met in CCS and now.  Fans have filled that time with fanfics, fanarts and analying their relationship, so I can understand why a lot of CLAMP fans are now getting bored with that pairing.

KuroFai on the other hand is fresh and new but I can pretty much guarantee if they had their own series after TRC and another new couple appeared, the new couple would be more popular because we've already seen KuroFai.  Even my own CLAMP OTP  is starting to lose ground with me to KuroFai because there's so much going on with them right now in the story and if you want to get technical about TRC pairings I was originally more of a Ashura/Fai fan.

With regards to the homophobic comment it doesn't matter if the person is nice or not.  Admitting to be a homophobe and seeing nothing wrong with being one is not okay.

[Cherry tiger]

You may say all that, Cherry Tiger, but at the end of the day that person made comments that will offend people. It's all good and dandy that it is her opinion, that isn't going to stop people from getting mad about it. Personally I find it really sad that in this day an age people still make comments like that. When you take away the language barrier and all that, shounen-ai and shoujo-ai still boils down to gay and lesbian. This isn't even about KF or her not liking the pairing or whatever. It's about her making comments that even though might not have meant them, were still put out there and they hurt others.

Point is, people are going to interpret things in different ways, which is why things should always be thought out before you say them. Especially when you are saying things that might offend and hurt other people.

I know... which is exactly why I said I'm going to give this another perspective. You can accept it or not... but that was the way I was thinking. I also thought that what she said was a bit too much, but she did say that English wasn't her best language and she didn't meant for it to mean it that way. Yes, people got hurt from that comment and I don't mind them expressing it. But I didn't see the need to push it further and bringing what she said to another forum, cause down here she will not be able to explain herself, even though we don't know who she is.

Anyway, I'm sorry if what I said in my previous post was rather messy and not properly said and still insulting. You don't have to accept what I say, I'm just giving it another way of looking at it.

With regards to the homophobic comment it doesn't matter if the person is nice or not. Admitting to be a homophobe and seeing nothing wrong with being one is not okay.

My point has been proven.

A lot of people in my country are homophobic. There is a reason for it to be that way, and that also especially involves religion. Now I'm religious too but I'm not the one to go around condemning homophobics cause if there's one thing I've learnt, is that you have to understand why they're like that.

By saying people who are homophobic and have no problems with it is not okay, you are saying most of the world isn't ok. Rather than saying that, maybe it's better to just understand why is this so. I'm not saying you're wrong, I think most homophobics are too much as well... but this particular person quoted didn't mean it in such a bad way. And as you can see, she can't defend herself.

Must people who are not homophobic be able to read or watch CLAMP's work? That's being prejudiced just as well...

Sorry. I'm really really sorry if I'm being too harsh. But I just want to express these.

[kudan]

With regards to the homophobic comment it doesn't matter if the person is nice or not.  Admitting to be a homophobe and seeing nothing wrong with being one is not okay.

I disagree, being homophobic is just like having any other kinds of phobia. Take for example, if someone is claustrophobic, are we in any position to dislike him/her?

[Rekall]

I disagree, being homophobic is just like having anyone other kinds of phobia. Take for example, if someone is claustrophobic, are we in any position to dislike him/her?

Being homophobic isn't like the other phobias, it's more closely related to racism because comments like "I'm homophobic" can and do offend people.  Replace "I'm scared of gay people" with "I'm scared of black people" and you're not going to find many people who are going to sympathize with a person who makes that comment.

As for claustrophobia, I doubt if elevators or other small enclosed spaces are going to be offended if someone doesn't like them.

[duchessa]

By saying people who are homophobic and have no problems with it is not okay, you are saying most of the world isn't ok. Rather than saying that, maybe it's better to just understand why is this so. I'm not saying you're wrong, I think most homophobics are too much as well... but this particular person quoted didn't mean it in such a bad way. And as you can see, she can't defend herself

I think she was using the word incorrectly. She did mention she had homosexual friends .
However having said that, being homophobic is not okay, in any time, in any place- just like being racist is not okay. Does most of the world do it anyway? Certainly . Doesn't make it right, and most of the world is not okay, in my opinion. But I get your point, the poster didn't mean any harm, her vocabulary is just a bit messy and liable to invite misunderstandings.

Now BACK on topic - I think both S/S and Kurofai are getting really interesting now. Kurofai because we're *finally* getting some real development and S/S/S? because of the two Syaorans and the parallels to the OTHER S/S (SeiSu - I find the similarities a bit creepy actually).

[mela]

I disagree, being homophobic is just like having any other kinds of phobia. Take for example, if someone is claustrophobic, are we in any position to dislike him/her?

I don't even think such things can be compared. Hating cramped spaces is A LOT different than hating someone based on one aspect of who they are. They're at such completely different levels.

And with that being said, I will refrain from talking about this subject further. It no longer pertains to the topic and is only bringing a lot of unneeded tension.

[suu_no_clover]

On-topic-ish...

It's hard to have a fair debate of sorts over the preferred couple if they're not treated with the same respect in the forums.

Can the S+S thread be stickied too?

[kudan]

Being homophobic isn't like the other phobias, it's more closely related to racism because comments like "I'm homophobic" can and do offend people.  Replace "I'm scared of gay people" with "I'm scared of black people" and you're not going to find many people who are going to sympathize with a person who makes that comment.

As for claustrophobia, I doubt if elevators or other small enclosed spaces are going to be offended if someone doesn't like them.

Yes, when it offends people, it's different. But like you said, different phobias differ from each other, being homophobic is different from being a racist. When they offend others with their comments, they are wrong. But when they admit to being homophobic, they are only owning up that they are homophic. Nothing else. Unless they start offending people with their views, that's a different story.

[nefadol]

Now BACK on topic - I think both S/S and Kurofai are getting really interesting now. Kurofai because we're *finally* getting some real development and S/S/S? because of the two Syaorans and the parallels to the OTHER S/S (SeiSu - I find the similarities a bit creepy actually).

Exactly what I was getting at two pages ago.  Although I wonder if Sakura could still love Syaoran if he killed Touya, if you really want to get into parallels.  I think the main difference between Subaru and Sakura is that Subaru had seen a lot of unpleasant things from an early age on, but still was able to remain pure.  Sakura has been rather sheltered in comparison, which is one of the reasons why I'm a bit concerned about her waking up.

I get the impression though that Sakura has a very strong resolve, so maybe she'll try to bring him back on her own.  I don't get the feeling that she'll remain asleep, she's far too strong willed.  But we've never seen her truly betrayed by someone she holds dear before.

[Cherry tiger]

On-topic-ish...

It's hard to have a fair debate of sorts over the preferred couple if they're not treated with the same respect in the forums.

Can the S+S thread be stickied too?

I second that!

And Sakura has always wanted to help, but because she was considered weak and unable to contribute much, she had to stay in the background. The poor girl has mentioned many times that she wanted to do something... and hopefully once she wakes up (and that if she wakes up without getting into an X Kamui state) she might finally be able to do something.

[duchessa]

Exactly what I was getting at two pages ago. Although I wonder if Sakura could still love Syaoran if he killed Touya, if you really want to get into parallels. I think the main difference between Subaru and Sakura is that Subaru had seen a lot of unpleasant things from an early age on, but still was able to remain pure. Sakura has been rather sheltered in comparison, which is one of the reasons why I'm a bit concerned about her waking up.

I get the impression though that Sakura has a very strong resolve, so maybe she'll try to bring him back on her own. I don't get the feeling that she'll remain asleep, she's far too strong willed. But we've never seen her truly betrayed by someone she holds dear before.

I never thought about it before but Sakura *is* sheltered compared to Subaru. I believe Clamp won't embitter her or anything like that though. I do think she is strongwilled but she might need someone to talk to first . Maybe Subaru (he has experience,after all)?

Yes, when it offends people, it's different. But like you said, different phobias differ from each other, being homophobic is different from being a racist. When they offend others with their comments, they are wrong. But when they admit to being homophobic, they are only owning up that they are homophic. Nothing else. Unless they start offending people with their views, that's a different story.

Ugh, I hate to continue this when I myself stressed on being on topic, but won't you feel offended if someone dislike you just because you like your own gender? Or even just think that your preference is *wrong*? Therefore, even merely stating herself to be homophobic is insulting to some. But again, I got the impression that the poster was just mangling her vocab.

[Rekall]

Exactly what I was getting at two pages ago.  Although I wonder if Sakura could still love Syaoran if he killed Touya, if you really want to get into parallels.

I think the difference though is if Clonie kills Touya, he'd be doing it while basically being unconscious since he has no memories, soul, heart, etc where with Seishirou, he was definitely fully aware of what he was doing when he killed Hokuto (and took great delight from it).  Therefore I think that Sakura would continue to love him since she knows he's not currently himself.

CLAMP is all about love and I don't think they'd have a character fall out of love so easily.  I mean Yasha still loved Ashura, Subaru still loved Seishirou, Souma and Kendappa still loved each other, Kamui still loved Fuuma, etc.  I don't think just because Sakura has lived a sheltered life is going to change things.

hopefully once she wakes up (and that if she wakes up without getting into an X Kamui state) she might finally be able to do something.

I don't think she'll fall into that coma-like state because girls are stronger than guys I think she would have already gone into that state instead of just being asleep.  And I do think she'll be doing more soon since if anyone can save Clonie it'll be her.  Plus she has gotten/is getting a lot of her memories back now so her old personality should start appearing again at some point.

[nefadol]

Yeah, I was just throwing a parallel out there.  Seishirou may have lacked emotions, but he very well knew what he was doing.

You'd have to truly love someone with all your heart to still be able to love them after they killed your close sibling.  I know I don't have someone I love like that, but I can't imagine being able to do that if someone killed my brother.

I want Sakura to get her "everything will be alright" attitude and fix things herself, which is what she'd like to do anyway (just fainting and falling asleep hinder her efforts quite a bit).  It is interesting to see her put into these kind of situations and how she'll pull through them.  It's definately something new for her character.

[Tatasenko]

Sakura is the only one who has never asked something to Yuuko...after all it was only Shaolan's wish to save her,even if the price has been taken from her  .
so maybe that the moment has come to her to make a wish to Yuuko so as to save Clone shaolan 

[Jeannette]

Sakura is the only one who has never asked something to Yuuko...after all it was only Shaolan's wish to save her,even if the price has been taken from her  .
so maybe that the moment has come to her to make a wish to Yuuko so as to save Clone shaolan 

Actually, Sakura did make a wish. Yuuko counted it as Sakura's wish as well when Syaoran wished to saver her life. Yuuko says in xxxHOLiC that she should have taken Syaoran's memories of Sakura as Sakura's price in exchange for saving Sakura's life, but Yuuko decides that taking Sakura's memories will also count as Sakura's price. ^_^ But that doesn't mean Sakura won't make a wish.

[Cherry tiger]

Actually, Sakura did make a wish. Yuuko counted it as Sakura's wish as well when Syaoran wished to saver her life. Yuuko says in xxxHOLiC that she should have taken Syaoran's memories of Sakura as Sakura's price in exchange for saving Sakura's life, but Yuuko decides that taking Sakura's memories will also count as Sakura's price. ^_^ But that doesn't mean Sakura won't make a wish.

I agree... it might be possible that Sakura might wish for something from Yuuko. That girl has always been wanting to do something... hopefully after she wakes up, she will do something and it's possible she might make a wish from Yuuko.