CLAMP's Famous Works > Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE
Re: Syaoran + Perfection = Marty Stu?
Cardcaptor Takato:
--- Quote from: Takeru ¥amamoto on July 02 2006, 02:56 am ---
AND I WANT TO SEE IWAO JUNKO AND TANGE SAKURA BACK IN ACTION!! >=(
--- End quote ---
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tange-san retired now? I just seem to remember reading somewhere that she was but I can't remember where. In any case, I totally agree about the character development in Tsubasa and it's one of the main things I don't like about this series. Syaoran is indeed too perfect and Sakura is just useless most of the time. The only real time she got to shine so far was in the Piffle World arc. I think Clamp probably made Syaoran's personality more perfect than his CCS personality because Tsubasa is targeted at a slightly younger age group than CCS is. I mean, I know both CCS and Tsubasa are for kids in Japan, but CCS seemed to be more for a general audience, something the entire family can enjoy. The plot was a lot thicker, the characters were much more interesting, there were more complex love triangles, and they had more controversial relationships, but Tsubasa seems to be more for a younger audience. The plot is much more predictable, the characters seem more like typical shounen characters, there's a lot less focus on romance, and the only controversial relationships so far have been some shounen-ai hints but it isn't quite as open about it as CCS was.
Since Tsubasa is for a slightly younger audience than CCS, Clamp probably wanted Syaoran to be perfect because a lead character who's perfect would be a more appealing role model for little kids than someone with a lot of flaws like his CCS counterpart. It's the same reason why Disney characters like Snow White and Princess Aurora are always so perfect because they're supposed to be role models for little kids. The Angelic Layer manga was also targeted towards a younger audience and the character development in that series was very bland as well yet all of their other series that are for slightly older audiences have much better characterization. You also have to remember that Tsubasa is a shounen anime and shounen anime's main audience tend to be younger boys who are more interested in exciting action scenes than character development. Perhaps if Tsubasa was made for a slightly older audience by Japanese standards, the series would have a lot better character development and maybe the plot wouldn't be so simple.
mela:
--- Quote from: Cardcaptor Takato on July 10 2006, 05:36 am ---Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tange-san retired now? I just seem to remember reading somewhere that she was but I can't remember where. In any case, I totally agree about the character development in Tsubasa and it's one of the main things I don't like about this series. Syaoran is indeed too perfect and Sakura is just useless most of the time. The only real time she got to shine so far was in the Piffle World arc. I think Clamp probably made Syaoran's personality more perfect than his CCS personality because Tsubasa is targeted at a slightly younger age group than CCS is. I mean, I know both CCS and Tsubasa are for kids in Japan, but CCS seemed to be more for a general audience, something the entire family can enjoy. The plot was a lot thicker, the characters were much more interesting, there were more complex love triangles, and they had more controversial relationships, but Tsubasa seems to be more for a younger audience. The plot is much more predictable, the characters seem more like typical shounen characters, there's a lot less focus on romance, and the only controversial relationships so far have been some shounen-ai hints but it isn't quite as open about it as CCS was.
Since Tsubasa is for a slightly younger audience than CCS, Clamp probably wanted Syaoran to be perfect because a lead character who's perfect would be a more appealing role model for little kids than someone with a lot of flaws like his CCS counterpart. It's the same reason why Disney characters like Snow White and Princess Aurora are always so perfect because they're supposed to be role models for little kids. The Angelic Layer manga was also targeted towards a younger audience and the character development in that series was very bland as well yet all of their other series that are for slightly older audiences have much better characterization. You also have to remember that Tsubasa is a shounen anime and shounen anime's main audience tend to be younger boys who are more interested in exciting action scenes than character development. Perhaps if Tsubasa was made for a slightly older audience by Japanese standards, the series would have a lot better character development and maybe the plot wouldn't be so simple.
--- End quote ---
I don't think it's because CLAMP was targeting Tsubasa at a younger audience. I think even younger kids read CCS and Syaoran wasn't as "Marty Stu" as he is in TRC. I think that the plot may have started out relatively simple, but it has gotten A LOT more complicated now. I don't think that because it is targeted at a younger audience CLAMP is going to dumb their ideas down completely. I also think that as the manga progressed you get more and more character development, I hardly think it's bland right now. The shounen tag is very loose I think, I think it was more for the sake of labelling it and the art style for the sake of categorization. I don't see it as strictly shounen and following shounen plot devices. Anyway, whatever category CLAMP labels it, they know that more than little boys are going to buy it because of their huge fanbase all over the world, so I don't think they restrict themselves to a merely shounenish plot.
I think it has a lot to do with recent revelations that Show contentwell, he's a clone. He's not a person who has ever had a FULL personality, much less his OWN personality. He's part a program created by Fei Wong Reed to capture feathers and part real!Syaoran's heart, which is where his only bit of humanity comes from. I can't say I exactly blame him because there are such weird and tragic circumstances to just his existance.
Rekall:
--- Quote from: Cardcaptor Takato on July 10 2006, 05:36 am ---Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tange-san retired now? I just seem to remember reading somewhere that she was but I can't remember where. In any case, I totally agree about the character development in Tsubasa and it's one of the main things I don't like about this series. Syaoran is indeed too perfect and Sakura is just useless most of the time. The only real time she got to shine so far was in the Piffle World arc. I think Clamp probably made Syaoran's personality more perfect than his CCS personality because Tsubasa is targeted at a slightly younger age group than CCS is. I mean, I know both CCS and Tsubasa are for kids in Japan, but CCS seemed to be more for a general audience, something the entire family can enjoy. The plot was a lot thicker, the characters were much more interesting, there were more complex love triangles, and they had more controversial relationships, but Tsubasa seems to be more for a younger audience. The plot is much more predictable, the characters seem more like typical shounen characters, there's a lot less focus on romance, and the only controversial relationships so far have been some shounen-ai hints but it isn't quite as open about it as CCS was.
Since Tsubasa is for a slightly younger audience than CCS, Clamp probably wanted Syaoran to be perfect because a lead character who's perfect would be a more appealing role model for little kids than someone with a lot of flaws like his CCS counterpart. It's the same reason why Disney characters like Snow White and Princess Aurora are always so perfect because they're supposed to be role models for little kids. The Angelic Layer manga was also targeted towards a younger audience and the character development in that series was very bland as well yet all of their other series that are for slightly older audiences have much better characterization. You also have to remember that Tsubasa is a shounen anime and shounen anime's main audience tend to be younger boys who are more interested in exciting action scenes than character development. Perhaps if Tsubasa was made for a slightly older audience by Japanese standards, the series would have a lot better character development and maybe the plot wouldn't be so simple.
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You got it backwards CCS is the one targeted at a younger audience. TRC is for an older one. CCS is extremely tame compared to TRC where you get graphic violence like you'd find in X.
Takeru:
Yeah, really. That's a hard mistake to make.
CCS is aimed at a younger or more family-oriented demographic, because of its overall cute factor and the lack of graphic violence. Let's also not forget that in the world of CCS, the lack of global and/or terrestrial conflict is conspicuously absent. No war, no violence, no world hunger, no beggars in the streets, we barely ever travel out of Tomoeda... it's a very innocuous show. Why? It was written for kids. It just happened to also appeal to an older audience, because of its deep character development and intricate storyline.
Tsubasa Chronicle is aimed at an older, more action-oriented audience (you know, like DBZ), since it's got a heck of a lot more action, a more serious storyline and personality, and less quirky cuteness. World-wide conflict is more apparent (the war concerning the feather in the colonial world, the dictatorship and Chun Hyang's rebellion in Koryo), and let's also not forget that Tsubasa Chronicle deals with a very serious matter: death by murder. In CCS, the only people who died were because of passive diseases or other things, and they don't even do it on screen. In Tsubasa, people die at the hands of others or are faced with death very frequently.
When it came to Tsubasa, I think CLAMP simply wanted to write a character that can kick ***, take names, and be l33t 24/7. You know, like a typical action star. But even Pierce Brosnan's, Tom Cruise's, and Vin Diesel's characters have more character growth than Syaoran, and they're supposed to be action kings.
They better make Syaoran a little more lively, especially after the revelation of such a surprising plot twist. Same with the annoyingly hapless Sakura, once she gets her stunted memory back. If they don't, I'm really not sure I'm gonna continue watching, because I came for Syaokura and I haven't been getting it.
Also: Yes, Tange Sakura is retired as a voice actor so she can prolong her singing career, but who said old actors can't make recurring cameo appearances? Look at Marlon Brando. Not even death is keeping him from starring in new media.
Becster:
Don't get me wrong, I have my little soft spot for Syaoran and Sakura...but...I agree. They're boring. Some of Syaoran's dorkish expressions crack me up (like when Kurogane threw the rock at him and it hit him, and when Fai lands on him after Kuro drops him XD), but...he's in monotone. Sakura just sits there going '*whimper**cling*' which is really annoying as she was so awesome in CCS. I really hope Clamp give her a shining moment some pont later...like getting really annoyed with Kuro and Fai and just kicking them in a closet and locking it. I reckon she's a closet fangirl. Haha.
I do only really read Tsubasa for Kurogane, Fai and Mokona. Not only are they the three stooges the comedy of the entire manga, they also have a very interesting relationship. Fai is obviously very fond of Mokona, and vice versa, whereas Mokona and Kuro...well...Kuro would probably kill Mokona if it weren't for the fact that Mokona can get him home. Haha. But more than anything I love seeing Kurogane and Fai's relationship unfold. Syaoran and Sakura are destined for each other - you know they'll end up together, they keep blushing and sidestepping around each other, which, although kinda cute, isn't getting them anywhere. Their relationship has barely moved from when Sakura woke up..
It's almost like for every two steps forward they take in their relationship, they take one backwards as well. It's much more fun watching Kuro and Fai's relationship, because there's a real chemistry there. They both have their short comings, and tend to bring out the best and worst in each other like most couples do ^_^, but as can be seen in the more recent chapters: they do have a close bond. Whether they'd want to admit it or not, they see things about each other no one else does.
Backtracking for a second, I don't think we can entirely blame Syaoran for being 'perfect' Show contentgiven that he's actually a man made clone. He's just perfection that's grown a heart. Maybe it's not his fault...but it is kinda annoying.
Show contentWho knows. Maybe Real!Syaoran will have more shortcomings. ^^
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