CLAMP's Famous Works > Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE
The Official Syaoran x Sakura Thread v.02
redeternity:
@ Mari
--- Quote from: Mari on July 31 2007, 09:11 am ---The thing that I find going against that whole Syaoran-kun's heart actually being R!Syaoran's is that Fay risked a bunch to save "that heart". If he knew all that was going on then he could have very well made out that it didn't matter which body the heart went to.
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I saw this as Fai simply not wanting Sakura to get hurt because, obviously, she would be... and he was trying to prevent a "family breakup" I guess xD ..but.. um, failed.
I wonder, perhaps FWR asked Fai to do what he could to prevent the heart from going back to R!Syaoran.. I mean, he didn't seem very happy when Xing Huo (is that her name?) helped R!Syaoran out. And it would explain the whole "was he too late?" thing that I seem to remember FWR saying. "He" being Fai. Mind you, my memory on all of this now is quite bad.
--- Quote from: Mari on July 31 2007, 09:11 am ---CLAMP is evil and I swear sometimes it's like they just throw stuff together that doesn't make sense but since they wrote it we think it must make sense and so we make it out to be when really what we're thinking wasn't what was supposed to be thought of at all.....[/end nonsense run-on]
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*confused* lol
And yeah, I'm not complaining about the DouWata-ness ^__^ Just didn't really expect that to happen. I was thinking there'd be more Sakura and Watanuki talking, and more Syaoran.. I will wait and try to be patient.. *taps fingers*
@ Ando..
Don't worry, I didn't think you sounded aggressive, and it's okay, your post makes perfect sense :)
--- Quote from: Ando on July 31 2007, 09:28 am ---R!Syaoran suffering the martyr death to save Sakura
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Yeah thats the thing that worries me about R!Syaoran.. he seems like the kind of character to just give up everything and suffer in silence for Sakura (if he does love her or at least care for her enough - personally I do think he has feelings for her based on reasons I stated in another thread: "Who will Sakura's number one be in the end") It sort of reminds me of how in CCS because of Sakura's rejection from Yukito he was going to sacrifice his own chance of happiness with her by not telling her he loved her. Basically, I've loved Syaoran since CCS - he's my favourite anime/manga character ever so I really want him to have a happy ending.
Something that worries me about a Clone/Sakura ending would be if something really cliched happens like Sakura's love for him being so strong that it causes him to return to his old self - please, no!! But I have faith CLAMP won't do that.. If she does end up with him I want it to be good enough to convince me that they are meant to be together. But I will definately cry if this leaves R!Syaoran unhappy and he dies or something ;_; Poor guy, I can actually see this happening! I'd be alright if he died happy, but him sacrificing himself is definately not him being happy IMO.
It really depends who the Syaoran is in the tube - whoever it is will be the one Sakura loves and who loves her. But the thing is, the Syaoran in the tube from chapter one is wearing the clow country clothes and at the moment neither the Clone nor R!Syaoran are wearing these. In fact, doesn't Yuuko still have them?
--- Quote from: Ando on July 31 2007, 09:28 am ---I personally much prefer the scenario of C!Syaoran somehow regaining his heart (although Yuuko claims it's unmendable, she doesn't lift a finger - and nor does anybody else - to stop her when Sakura says she wants to retrieve it. I'm positive it's possible, but it probably comes at a great price)
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What I think about Yuuko not lifting a finger to help Sakura is basically that - okay, I've only read up to volume 3 of xxxholic (plus some recent chapters) - but, with all her customers she seems to just warn them and then let them do what they want after that.. let "hitsuzen" happen. This may be the case with Sakura too. Whatever Yuuko says is always right so I think that Yuuko saying the clone can't get his heart back = fact!! Still, it doesn't necessarily mean the clone is doomed. There might be another way.. Just I/we (the readers) don't know it yet :/
Mari:
Just by saying "that heart belongs to you" is showing that he's thinking only of Syaoran-kun. Every word in chapter 119 and 120 goes against the whole only for Sakura thing. If he only did it for her then he wouldn't need to stand up to Kamui and say that Syaoran-kun was really a good kid. Or that a fake heart can become a real heart. He would simply try to shove the heart back in the clone, gift wrap him, and present him to Sakura xDD
Regardless, either idea supports the fact that the heart is not the same :/ Again, if it was, Fay would know Sakura would be happy with either body....it sounds morbid....lol.
I'm thinking FWR would not be too happy with the heart staying in his clone, since that was the thing R!Syaoran did that pissed him off in the first place xDD In fact, trying to prevent it is almost going against what Fay's supposed to do for his wish.
Ermmm....I don't think that sentence of mine was made to make sense >.>
On a different note about you mentioning the tube scene and the clothes from Clow...if it really is only supposed to be souls that are allowed there then maybe the "soul" of the Syaoran in there takes that form. The true Syaoran for Sakura.
And PS. It's obvious that R!Syaoran's love for him is going to be so strong it will turn him back xDD
redeternity:
*just re-read chapters 119-120*
I think Fai is wrong though. I mean, he says "even if it does belong to someone else, even if it is fake, to the person that recieves it that heart is the real thing" but really, what does it matter if the heart resides in the clone or in R!Syaoran's body? Either way the body is the same, and the only thing that is different is that R!Syaoran now has the whole full heart whilst the clone only had half. If Sakura is still pinning her hopes on returning the heart to the clone then I don't see why. What difference does it make whose body it is in? The heart she fell in love with is right in front of her (just in a different body.. that looks exactly the same anyway). The only thing is that she says they are different (which is true because R!Syaoran has the full heart so he would be) - but, based on that scene where she angsts on the bed to Fai IMO I think she is confused that she is having feelings for someone who looks like the one she fell in love with but isn't. She probably feels guilty - like, she shouldn't be having feelings for a "replacement". I just think that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for her to be in love with "half a person" which is what the clone is, really.
And the whole thing about "that heart belongs to you. With Sakura-chan and your loved ones you have made it a precious thing".. Well, how could he have done, really? The "you" Fai is refferring to is a body.. a shell.. since the heart was never the clone's.. if you get me.. The clone's true self is a body without a heart. What I mean is that I don't see how a body could make a heart precious since it's just a body.. unless he had in fact grown a heart of his own.. only then. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. I'm actually confusing myself! It makes sense in my head anyway ^^
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 12:29 am ---'m thinking FWR would not be too happy with the heart staying in his clone, since that was the thing R!Syaoran did that pissed him off in the first place xDD In fact, trying to prevent it is almost going against what Fay's supposed to do for his wish.
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I'm not sure if FWR was annoyed that R!Syaoran interfered. He certainly looked surprised, but not so much annoyed. He said: "even though the heart of another resided in him, if the determination to gather feathers remained that was all that mattered". I've actually changed my mind - I don't think FWR asked Fai to prevent the heart from going back to R!Syaoran. I don't think it caused a hindrance to his plan either way so it doesn't bother him whether the clone has a heart or not. Although it probably took a hell of a lot longer for Syaoran to collect the feathers with a heart inside him than it would have done without. Since now that he's heartless, he's all: "Destroy obstructions.. Collect feather.. Next world.."
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 12:29 am ---On a different note about you mentioning the tube scene and the clothes from Clow...if it really is only supposed to be souls that are allowed there then maybe the "soul" of the Syaoran in there takes that form. The true Syaoran for Sakura.
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Yeah I thought about that too. But then why isn't Sakura wearing her princess' outfit in the hourglass tube? Why is she wearing that dress instead? There must be a reason.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 12:29 am ---And PS. It's obvious that R!Syaoran's love for him is going to be so strong it will turn him back xDD
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Haha now THAT would be the best ending ever!
Ando:
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 03:33 am ---And the whole thing about "that heart belongs to you. With Sakura-chan and your loved ones you have made it a precious thing".. Well, how could he have done, really?
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Still, you have to remember that this is CLAMP we're dealing with, and that they seem to believe fully in the power of true love. That wouldn't be the first thought-to-be impossible thing that one of their characters have managed to do thanks to their strong feelings for someone else.
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 03:33 am ---The "you" Fai is refferring to is a body.. a shell.. since the heart was never the clone's.. if you get me.. The clone's true self is a body without a heart. What I mean is that I don't see how a body could make a heart precious since it's just a body.. unless he had in fact grown a heart of his own.. only then.
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That's another thing about CLAMP that you start to notice after reading some of their others works: they are very firm about that even if a character isn't a "real" person (for example, if they are a machine or created through magic), that still doesn't make them any less real. That was, among other, a running theme in Chobits, and many of the characters that appear in TRC shouldn't logically be able to exist in other dimensions since they, in their original manga, were created by someone else and thought of as having no soul/feelings.
Mari:
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 03:33 am ---(just in a different body..
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Body is not the same~ We saw all through the series that Sakura’s body is naturally inclined towards Syaoran-kun’s without her heart. Why else would she reach out for him when she was asleep in Piffle? Touch him intimately when she didn’t know him in Koriyo, Lake country, barely knew him then in Jade, Outo, etc--; while never doing the same to any of her other group? Yet with R!Syaoran’s she shares nothing and always pushes back. I think the body could start to develop a heart because back in Volume 9 Mokona said how everyone has both body memories and heart memories (not to be confused with Sakura‘s ability to store world memories..). So why wouldn’t clonie have them too? Right now his body is just like Sakura’s was at the beginning of the series, ne? Which might be why he held her in such an intimate way back in Tokyo. He could have just thrown the feather at her but he made a whole eye!sex scene out of it…….
And although R! was watching his body wasn’t there so Sakura’s body doesn’t relate to him like it does to Syaoran-kun’s. He only has mind/heart memories with her. R! could never have those body memories with her…
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 03:33 am ---I don't think it caused a hindrance to his plan either way so it doesn't bother him whether the clone has a heart or not. Although it probably took a hell of a lot longer for Syaoran to collect the feathers with a heart inside him than it would have done without. Since now that he's heartless, he's all: "Destroy obstructions.. Collect feather.. Next world.."
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Ummm….LoL. I think you just stated both sides of that argument xDD
<3
As for Sakura bed angst scene…I saw it differently. It was more like Sakura was trying to get into her head the idea that R!Syaoran was her most precious but although they looked the same and had the same steady gaze or whatever it was like something inside of her was going against that idea. And I think she’s feeling more guilty because she wants R!Syaoran TO be her Syaoran but he just can’t be. because he belongs to Watanuki xDD
This will sound insane but….*blushes*….if Syaoran was meant to only be one person, then why would they even play with the idea of putting a twin in the drama CD….?
As for dress maybe all souls should look like that….while Syaoran-kun couldn’t be all nice and flowy and white because he had to create a heart of his own. And I think it would be suiting because that was how he created himself to be…all covered in filth because his soul’s all dirty from killing and being psychotic. I always found it highly symbolic that Sakura was clean and white while Syaoran was “of earth” (his outfit actually being from his life on earth) with torn up clothes and dirty flesh….both literally and psychically. Like the poem “love bade me welcome, but my soul drew back guilty of dust and sin” Sorry. *nerd* :P
Fact is nothing is set. Everything is based on interpretation. And seeing as I can only relate my ideas through translations that could never properly sub for what I would read if I was Japanese then my ideas are far from concrete. Plus as Ando says….it’s CLAMP <3 If we're going into possible vs non-possible then we should start discussing how you program a lifeless body to only collect feathers O.o;
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