CLAMP's Famous Works > Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE
The Official Syaoran x Sakura Thread v.02
redeternity:
--- Quote from: Ando on August 01 2007, 04:33 am ---That's another thing about CLAMP that you start to notice after reading some of their others works: they are very firm about that even if a character isn't a "real" person (for example, if they are a machine or created through magic), that still doesn't make them any less real.
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Oh I didn't mean that he didn't deserve her because he wasn't "real" or anything like that. As long as he grows his own heart I guess I'm alright with the whole Clone and Sakura thing (even though I don't really like them as a pairing as of yet), however, I think it would be unfair for him to get back R!Syaoran's heart when it never belonged to him in the first place... And it would make me one very unhappy fangirl.
--- Quote from: Ando on August 01 2007, 04:33 am ---That was, among other, a running theme in Chobits, and many of the characters that appear in TRC shouldn't logically be able to exist in other dimensions since they, in their original manga, were created by someone else and thought of as having no soul/feelings.
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In the case of Chii though, wasn't she created by Fai in Celes? So that makes sense - even in a different dimension she was still a created thing.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---We saw all through the series that Sakura’s body is naturally inclined towards Syaoran-kun’s without her heart.
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Sakura never actually lost her heart, she just lost her memories.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---Why else would she reach out for him when she was asleep in Piffle?
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Uhh I can't remember.. When was that?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---I think the body could start to develop a heart because back in Volume 9 Mokona said how everyone has both body memories and heart memories (not to be confused with Sakura‘s ability to store world memories..). So why wouldn’t clonie have them too?
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He could start to develop a heart but there is no evidence of this as of yet.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---Right now his body is just like Sakura’s was at the beginning of the series, ne?
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Sort of. But not really. Like I say, at the beginning of the series Sakura lost her memories, whereas Cloney lost his heart. But then again he didn't really lose it since it was never really his.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---he made a whole eye!sex scene out of it…….
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Really?? I thought that whole scene was just supposed to prove that even having a pleading Sakura at his feet didn't make a difference to him. Proof that he is now a heart-less being with no other objective than to collect feathers.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---Ummm….LoL. I think you just stated both sides of that argument xDD
<3.
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Lol yeah :/ You do wonder though how FWR can sit in front of that TV-set thing watching the group 24/7. Doesn't he ever sleep? Why doesn't he have square-eyes by now? xD Actually, come to think of it, didn't his mother ever teach him not to meddle in other people's lives for his own selfish gain?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---As for Sakura bed angst scene…I saw it differently. It was more like Sakura was trying to get into her head the idea that R!Syaoran was her most precious but although they looked the same and had the same steady gaze or whatever it was like something inside of her was going against that idea. And I think she’s feeling more guilty because she wants R!Syaoran TO be her Syaoran but he just can’t be.
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Uhh well this is what I think about it...
Sakura says: "I know that even if he's the original he's like the ones we met in the other worlds - the same face but different persons. Still.. it's no good.." = I think by this she means basically that: It's no good, I still have feelings for the real Syaoran no matter how much I try not to.
Because why else would she say "Still.. it's no good" in that context?
Also she says: "Each time I come across him. It's hopeless. Why? The one right in front of me isn't Syaoran-kun is he?" = She is asking herself "why" she is falling for R!Syaoran and she is frightened of this because she believes she fell in love with Cloney.
But, yeah, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this ^^
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---This will sound insane but….*blushes*….if Syaoran was meant to only be one person, then why would they even play with the idea of putting a twin in the drama CD….?
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Because CLAMP are evil and take pleasure out of teasing their fans -_-
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---As for dress maybe all souls should look like that….while Syaoran-kun couldn’t be all nice and flowy and white because he had to create a heart of his own. And I think it would be suiting because that was how he created himself to be…all covered in filth because his soul’s all dirty from killing and being psychotic. I always found it highly symbolic that Sakura was clean and white while Syaoran was “of earth” (his outfit actually being from his life on earth) with torn up clothes and dirty flesh….both literally and psychically.
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Very interesting theory but I don't know if it's likely to be as symbolic as that. I mean, at first I theorized that the whole tube was supposed to be symbolic.. but I was wrong.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 04:58 am ---If we're going into possible vs non-possible then we should start discussing how you program a lifeless body to only collect feathers O.o;
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True, why I am trying to make logical sense out of something that has been labelled as being of the fantasy genre? :sweatdrop:
Mari:
*pokes* Are we reading the same series? In TRC it has been stated that memories ARE the heart >.> That’s why Sakura would have died if Fay hadn’t (done as he was supposed to, shame-shame) and given her that feather. Remember, we’re in the CLAMP-verse. Things don’t necessarily make sense xD That’s why the heart and the soul are different…bodies have memories…people can eat eyes and somehow make them appear as their own.
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 07:40 am ---Uhh I can't remember.. When was that?
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Tsk, tsk. You dare ask on the SxS thread when that moment was?! I shall have to poke you again *pokes* Back in chapter 75 (-ish xD) It happened after they were drinking? And Syaoran-kun and the others put her to bed and then she reached out for him and he held her hand and then the next day she said she had a very happy dream about someone holding her hand. Which goes back to her body knowing Syaoran-kun and the hand holding back in Hanshin. Even if her body is asleep it’s still feeling and gaining memories and retaining them and reacting on them…
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 07:40 am ---He could start to develop a heart but there is no evidence of this as of yet.
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LOL! Ouch. I’ve never seen anyone so against poor Syaoran-kun having his own heart xD
I think it’s a stand in itself that C!Syao and R!Syao were both able to get into Syaoran-kun’s dreams. If he wasn’t developing his own self then C!Syao wouldn’t have been harassing him back in Toyko. And R!Syao wouldn’t have been appearing before him as a child…
R!Syaoran is even against it :p He said himself that Sakura being most precious comes from Syaoran-kun’s HEART, not his own.
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 07:40 am ---Really?? I thought that whole scene was just supposed to prove that even having a pleading Sakura at his feet didn't make a difference to him. Proof that he is now a heart-less being with no other objective than to collect feathers.
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If so, he could have just slammed her to the ground like he did with everyone else. There’s no reason for a “heartless” being to be holding her and putting his cheek to hers. If he was trying to stick it in that he was all pychotic-happy then it would have been worse to completely ignore her. Wee~ we see things so differently :3
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 07:40 am ---Lol yeah :/ You do wonder though how FWR can sit in front of that TV-set thing watching the group 24/7?
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…because the p0rn store banned him from excessive over due fines….? xDD
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 07:40 am ---But, yeah, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this ^^
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Yea. For that scene we can honestly make nothing of it. Because that translation is different from the one I used, and I’ve read two others aside from this all which have her saying completely different words which just happen to contradict the other translations. So *lol* discussing that scene is a little pointless unless the two of us go off and learn Japanese together xD
But! The fact remains they’re both in the Drama! ^___^
Lmao. I know, I know about the tube. I just thought it would be so cool <3
Hmmm, you're someone who thought it wasn't going to happen from the start....
Chances are more likely that if he’s on the other side it has something to do with FWR’s mirror….
Ah, but it’s so much fun discussing the lives and ways of fictional characters brought up in a world with no rules until CLAMP makes or goes against them =3
redeternity:
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---*pokes*
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Ow!
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---Are we reading the same series? In TRC it has been stated that memories ARE the heart >.>
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Where does it say that? I checked the first chapter on msn groups and it definately says "memories" and nothing about a heart. Although like you said maybe the translations are different. I'm not sure exactly how reliable that translation was.. If only I had the tankoubons *shakes fist*
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---Tsk, tsk. You dare ask on the SxS thread when that moment was?! I shall have to poke you again *pokes* Back in chapter 75 (-ish xD) It happened after they were drinking? And Syaoran-kun and the others put her to bed and then she reached out for him and he held her hand and then the next day she said she had a very happy dream about someone holding her hand. Which goes back to her body knowing Syaoran-kun and the hand holding back in Hanshin. Even if her body is asleep it’s still feeling and gaining memories and retaining them and reacting on them…
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Oh right, I remember now.. Well that.. The body memories remember what the heart memories didn't right? But.. uh.. but.. oh, nevermind, I'm trying to make logical sense again.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---LOL! Ouch. I’ve never seen anyone so against poor Syaoran-kun having his own heart xD
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But psycho Cloney is sooo sexy! I like him how he is now!
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---R!Syaoran is even against it :p He said himself that Sakura being most precious comes from Syaoran-kun’s HEART, not his own.
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I am SO glad you mentioned that! Haha, I made this little discovery a while back that I'm pretty proud of.. ;D
Where R!Syao tells C!Syao that: "the fact that you consider Sakura over there most important to you doesn't come from my heart. it's from you!" I think he is just lying here; testing the clone to see if he has grown his own heart (to decide whether or not he should destroy him). Notice how he clenches his fists just before he says it (lower left hand corner) and lookie! Even Kurogane noticed! Squee~:
http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter122.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2750
And then when he actually says it his face looks really emotional and pained:
http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter122.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2751
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---If so, he could have just slammed her to the ground like he did with everyone else.
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He only seemed to do that when somebody got in the way. Kurogane tried stopping him, so he used Fai's magic against him. R!Syaoran tried stopping him, so he stuck a sword through his leg. Fai tried stopping him, so he--yeah.. Sakura didn't do that, she just lightly gripped onto his arm. Anyway, if Cloney had killed her then he would ruin his whole objective of bringing her feathers so he probably didn't hurt her for that reason.
(And besides, I thought it was pretty violent the way he slashed that bubble thing she was in - when I first read that I thought he'd killed her :surprised:)
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---There’s no reason for a “heartless” being to be holding her and putting his cheek to hers.
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That bit was just fanservice xD
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---Wee~ we see things so differently :3
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Yeah, I know! Actually I think the majority of the TRC fandom would disagree with my views lol but it's still really fun to discuss it.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 01 2007, 10:47 am ---Chances are more likely that if he’s on the other side it has something to do with FWR’s mirror….
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I'm interested.. what makes you think that?
Mari:
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 10:41 pm ---But psycho Cloney is sooo sexy! I like him how he is now!
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Hey. No one is denying that the blue eye is love xD
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 10:41 pm ---I think he is just lying here....
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Ah , very crafty…using the manga for your evil purposes >D
But! But, but, but my dear! Even if he was using it as a fake out, that means he did believe that the clone DID have feelings! If it wasn’t true at all he wouldn’t even be able to try that because it would be inconsequential! :p
Assuming that his Sakura IS/WAS this Sakura (as in disregarding the whole “even if that heart never returns” thing…) I think he’s more pissed/fist clenching because he knew he gave up Sakura the moment he decided to protect her.
But really, you need to have more faith in the characters xP Fay was wrong, R!Syaoran's lying, Sakura in love with an imaginary person....
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 01 2007, 10:41 pm ---He only seemed to do that when somebody got in the way.
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Just saying he could have totally ignored her instead of bringing her closer. But meh. Fanservice, subtext, substantial plot evidence, the closest Syaoran-kun will dare to kissing Sakura aside from fan fiction….we can think whatever we like until the end is known.
Well.
I did have this nice little theory, with pretty words and such…but then when I was looking back on a pic of the tube I also found this. So…I don’t see either side being a mirror anytime soon or ever >.>
LoL. There’s also the theory about FWR’s monocle being the glass that divides them xDD But that’s not mine and I wouldn’t even know how to validate that.
redeternity:
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---But! But, but, but my dear! Even if he was using it as a fake out, that means he did believe that the clone DID have feelings! If it wasn’t true at all he wouldn’t even be able to try that because it would be inconsequential! :p
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Maybe "lying" was the wrong word, I meant "testing" ;D My guess is that he said it just to SEE if the clone had feelings because he wasn't sure. He hoped that the clone could have grown his own heart (thats why he gave him his own heart in the first place) but when the clone responded to his statement with a kick, he realised that he didn't. In the chapter after he says the whole "the love for Sakura comes from you" thing, R!Syao says that he promised before that "if you continued to be only a created thing who acted wildly and forcefully, I would eliminate you" and he prepares to kill him as he says this (that sword out of the hand thing is so cool! ^__^)
In fact, I think if Sakura had not screamed out "STOP! DON'T KILL SYAORAN-KUN" he would have killed Cloney since he had the upper hand at that point.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---But really, you need to have more faith in the characters xP Fay was wrong, R!Syaoran's lying, Sakura in love with an imaginary person...
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In love with an imaginary person? What? Lmao!
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---Just saying he could have totally ignored her instead of bringing her closer.
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You're right. Still think it's fanservice though :lol:
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---the closest Syaoran-kun will dare to kissing Sakura aside from fan fiction
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What about this beautiful coloured picture?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---Well.
I did have this nice little theory, with pretty words and such…but then when I was looking back on a pic of the tube I also found this. So…I don’t see either side being a mirror anytime soon or ever >.>
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Oooh, I've never seen that pic before. Is it from the character guide? And I don't know why but I find the way Sakura and Syaoran are standing up in that tube kinda amusing.
Anyway, one thing I have noticed about the tube is that the two ends are slightly different.. I don't know if this is in any way significant to the plot or if it's just part of the design. And I'm kinda confused.. was your theory about the mirror supposed to be like, that Syaoran was not actually in the tube but reflected there by FWR or something?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 12:21 am ---LoL. There’s also the theory about FWR’s monocle being the glass that divides them xDD
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Wow, I love it! xD
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