CLAMP's Famous Works > Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE
The Official Syaoran x Sakura Thread v.02
Mari:
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 02:45 am ---In love with an imaginary person? What? Lmao!
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Non-existent then, since you think Syaoran-kun was never his own person :p
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 02:45 am ---Maybe "lying" was the wrong word, I meant "testing"
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Still. To even have the idea to TEST that theory it would have to be on the knowledge that yes, at one point this shell (as you call it xP)--Syaoran-kun--DID have feelings separate from R!Syaoran. Or else how would he know to test that particular idea? Either way R!Syaoran is still supporting the fact that there was “something” separate from him in the clone’s body if he was testing it out. Really, you're more or less advocating the idea with the "test" that Syaoran-kun lost out to the clone for control of the body.
Which then leads to his must kill reaction could have very well been set off by the fact that the clone won the battle over Syaoran-kun (a separate entity) in who takes the body, if we’re playing that game. xD
And yup he would have defiantly killed C! off because as it turns out R!Syaoran wanted to kill C!Syaoran and then himself so they could be together in the afterlife
Yea. We’ll just go ahead and file that away into the not agreeing category. I mean, I understand what you‘re saying. And from the “logical” point of view it’s probably a nice and comfortable standing--IF you threw out the rest of the series and only aimed on when R!Syaoran appeared. Because really if you’re backing that then you toss all the evidence that he was forming a heart. Things like his stand of “I know who I am…I’m Syaoran” and the constant “warmth in his chest” from Sakura. Not only that but Clow put Sakura up to “melting his heart.” Even the dreams, again, show separate.
Why else would they go on about the strong heart, and the flame and junk? Because not only did he have that half heart on “loan” but he was developing his own self as well. Maybe--just maybe….think back to the dream in Tokyo. Remember when C!Syaoran said to Syaoran-kun “I’ve been waiting so long…” ? In the image it looks like he’s coming through a mirror of some sort. What if Syaoran-kun was imprisoned in his own body, while the clone controlled it? Much like Syaoran-kun was using it and the Clone had to stay dormant because of the seal?
LMAO. It’s funny because if you look at what we’re saying (especially my last thought *coughcough*) none of it makes sense…and the more we talk the less sense we make xDD Chances are nothing is anywhere truly near what we’re talking about but meh…
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 02:45 am ---And I don't know why but I find the way Sakura and Syaoran are standing up in that tube kinda amusing.
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Lol. Yea, them kind of standing in there and waving to us struck me as kind of morbid…actually >.> It was from an art book, can't remember which. They also had little sketches of Sakura’s and Syaoran’s rooms…which by the way I found it strange that they have telephones. Odd. I never even considered they did.
My theory...? Ummm....using the mirror to get to her...something about that and...because the fact he doesn't seem to be a soul in there...and Yuuko says only souls can....ummm. Yea. My evidence was gone with that picture so it's sort of pointless to relate concretely ^^;;
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 02:45 am ---Wow, I love it! xD
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…I can’t remember but something about him, like his body, being an actual world…or something…? xDD I think it was in the Tsubasa forums…
And yes :3 That phantom of the opera-esque picture is smex~
redeternity:
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Still. To even have the idea to TEST that theory it would have to be on the knowledge that yes, at one point this shell (as you call it xP)--Syaoran-kun--DID have feelings separate from R!Syaoran. Or else how would he know to test that particular idea?
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Well, he came up with the theory that Syaoran could grow his own heart right from the start when the clone was created. When he gave him the heart he did it in the hope that he would grow his own. Thats where the idea came from. And why would he have to have the knowledge in the first place (that Cloney had grown his own heart) to test this idea? Because then what would be the point of testing it - he'd already know! xD
Lolz *brain dedz*
Having said that though.. There's still so much we don't know yet about R!Syaoran.. Who knows what his real reasons were for all the things he's said/done.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Which then leads to his must kill reaction could have very well been set off by the fact that the clone won the battle over Syaoran-kun (a separate entity) in who takes the body, if we’re playing that game. xD
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Yes that is what I believe happened :/ I think.. unless I'm understanding you wrong..
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Because really if you’re backing that then you toss all the evidence that he was forming a heart. Things like his stand of “I know who I am…I’m Syaoran” and the constant “warmth in his chest” from Sakura. Not only that but Clow put Sakura up to “melting his heart.”
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But do all those things really prove that he was growing a heart? Couldn't it have been R!Syaoran's heart that was getting that "warmth" and R!Syaoran's heart that was "melting"? Remember how, in CCS, it took Syaoran a while to warm up to Sakura? But R!Syaoran seems warm from the start.. If it wasn't his heart that was getting that "warmth" and "melting" then why wasn't he rude to Sakura and putting her down and stuff like his CCS counterpart?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Why else would they go on about the strong heart, and the flame and junk?
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Because it's R!Syaoran's heart. LOL. Sorry you're probably getting pissed off with me now xD
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Remember when C!Syaoran said to Syaoran-kun “I’ve been waiting so long…” ? In the image it looks like he’s coming through a mirror of some sort. What if Syaoran-kun was imprisoned in his own body, while the clone controlled it? Much like Syaoran-kun was using it and the Clone had to stay dormant because of the seal?
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Uhh I'm not exactly sure what your argument is here. But, I don't think "Syaoran-kun" or "Our!Syaoran" or whoever was imprisoned inside his own body whilst the Clone controlled it. It was more like Syaoran's true self coming through (a heartless being whose only objective is to collect feathers). The way I see it when the seal was breaking but not fully broken, Syaoran's true self was able to obtain some control over his body.. then it went back to "Our!Syaoran" again.. Then when the seal broke for good the half-heart came out of his body and went back to R!Syaoran.. and from then on "Our!Syaoran" was no longer existant.
Sorry if that wasn't what you were talking about at all and I misinterpreted you completely.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---and the more we talk the less sense we make xDD
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That is the truest thing that has been said throughout our whole discussion!
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---Chances are nothing is anywhere truly near what we’re talking about but meh…
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Agreed.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 04:53 am ---…I can’t remember but something about him, like his body, being an actual world…or something…? xDD
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o.O Imagine being in FWR... frightening..
Okay, I just thought of something slightly OT but.. How did Fujitaka know to name him Syaoran? Was it "hitsuzen" (probably!)? Or could he (Fujitaka) be working for FWR (probably not!)? Or did Syaoran just have a name tag when Fujitaka found him?
Mari:
No, no. I mean he’d have to know that in Syaoran-kun’s heart there was an affection for Sakura separate from himself. Or else testing that “Sakura is most precious” thing would be pointless. As in, in order for him to come up with the theory he had to know of a previous affection for Sakura being in Syaoran-kun….
What it comes down to is you like R!Syaoran I like Syaoran-kun so until we know the end we’re going to continue to see what we want. Agreed? <3
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 07:34 am ---Yes that is what I believe happened
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No, it’s not xDD
Because I’m saying that Syaoran-kun’s heart lost out to Clone where you’re saying, from what I’ve gathered from our rather shamefully long discussion, that Syaoran-kun never had a heart to begin with.
Or
….Are you….? *points below*
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 07:34 am ---"Our!Syaoran" was no longer existant.
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Caught.
So you DO admit Syaoran-kun had a heart/was seperate?
At the beginning you were saying it was only R!Syaoran’s to begin with but---not anymore…..? =3
If so…then you’re contradicting yourself by saying that---
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 07:34 am ---Because it's R!Syaoran's heart. LOL. Sorry you're probably getting pissed off with me now xD
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By the way?
Bad move.
*tackles you to ground* xDD
Yea, see, he has a nice heart *pets it*, but not a strong one. Strong would have been to defend himself instead of standing there getting pegged by those stones. What does standing there prove? It proves that you‘re guilty. Taking the blame moronically for something you didn‘t do. Strong would have been being beside Sakura, knowing that (if it‘s what he wants…idk for sure yet) she will never love him but still smiling for her like Syaoran-kun was doing when he knew their relationship was gone. Strong would have been not starting to say crap about “Are you leaving because of me?” when Sakura took that hit. Sorry but I really, really did not like him in that moment….he sounded like he was turning everything on himself, like before, and that’s just….weak. not everything that happens has to do with you R!Syaoran >.> Or anytime he grabbed her instead of talking with her. Even Kurogane said silent guys are annoying (here here!)
The funniest thing is that people say that Syaoran-kun was over protective, when R!Syaoran is the real one like that. He grabs her, thinking that’s all it takes to get her to listen. Where Syaoran-kun would tell her, like back in Lake Country, that she shouldn’t do certain things because of valid reasons. And when she could, he supported her. He was scared and nervous whenever there was something she was putting herself up to, like in the Country of Idols or even Piffle, but he would be there smiling for her and trusting her. Not all this grab, grab, grab….which by the way freaks her out because R!Syaoran seems to be moving with his heart memories while not having any body memories to back up his touches :p Naughty, naughty. Especially since there’s a different logic between “appropriate” touches between two people in Japanese culture.
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 07:34 am ---Couldn't it have been R!Syaoran's heart that was getting that "warmth" and R!Syaoran's heart that was "melting"?
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R!Syaoran had to have been melted or whatever you wanted to call it before going into that tube or else he wouldn’t have risked precious things to him like relationship, time, and freedom to not only protect Sakura and Watanuki, but to give chance to the clone as well :/
--- Quote from: redeternity on August 02 2007, 07:34 am ---Okay, I just thought of something slightly OT but.. How did Fujitaka know to name him Syaoran? Was it "hitsuzen" (probably!)?
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OH! That’s soooo weird that you said that!!! xDD I originally put that in my last post and saying why name him Syaoran when the plan was to just kill the kid off…and then I said you would probably say that it would be so he could be easily replaced by R!Syaoran, like a placeholder…but I thought I sounded like a jerk to presume so I edited it out…. But sharing that just made me sound like one anyways >D Yea, I brought that up on the last SyaraonxSakura (version1.0 lol) thread before it was mysteriously deleted but, that doesn’t mean we have an answer to it yet. LoL.
On a side note…thank you for being a R!SyaoranxSakura fan who doesn’t use the argument “because I feel sorry for him…” as validation of why he should be with Sakura. I respect you greatly because of it <3
redeternity:
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---No, no. I mean he’d have to know that in Syaoran-kun’s heart there was an affection for Sakura separate from himself. Or else testing that “Sakura is most precious” thing would be pointless. As in, in order for him to come up with the theory he had to know of a previous affection for Sakura being in Syaoran-kun….
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No because when R!Syaoran said the whole thing about Sakura being precious, at that stage there was no more "Syaoran-kun"/"Our!Syaoran".. he was gone. There was only the heartless clone left. He knew that somebody's heart had an affection for Sakura (because he watched everything through the eye). He knew that the affection either came from his own heart or a possible grown heart in Cloney.. or both. Therefore it was a way of testing whether the Clone had grown his own heart.
Uhhh I wrote a load more about this whilst getting more and more confused.. so I deleted it.. sorry..
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---So you DO admit Syaoran-kun had a heart/was seperate?
At the beginning you were saying it was only R!Syaoran’s to begin with but---not anymore…..? =3
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Right, okay:
The Clone = A body without a heart
R!Syaoran = A body with a full heart (half of which he temporarily lost but has now regained)
Our!Syaoran = R!Syaoran’s half heart living in the clone’s body.
Lolz look I even drew a little family tree!
So anyway, when the seal broke the half heart he had went back to R!Syaoran.. which leaves us with the Clone’s body with no heart inside it (like it was originally).
And as Our!Syaoran IS the clone’s body + half a heart.. Without the heart he doesn’t exist anymore.
Gaawd, it’s so hard to say exactly what I mean. I’m gonna give up now!
EDIT: Actually lets put this another way.. I think it’s the use of the our!syaoran thats confusing me. In fact, when I first came to this forum I was confused who “our!Syaoran” even was.
Basically I think there are only 2 existances really... The Clone and R!Syaoran.. The Clone was just different depending on the timeline!
The beginning After R!Syao interfered After R!Syao takes back his heart
Clone without heart ---> Clone with heart ---> Clone without heart again
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---Yea, see, he has a nice heart *pets it*, but not a strong one. Strong would have been to defend himself instead of standing there getting pegged by those stones. What does standing there prove? It proves that you‘re guilty. Taking the blame moronically for something you didn‘t do. Strong would have been being beside Sakura, knowing that (if it‘s what he wants…idk for sure yet) she will never love him but still smiling for her like Syaoran-kun was doing when he knew their relationship was gone.
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The whole thing about that though is that unlike “Our!Syao” (temporary xD), R!Syaoran does have faults (that’s why I love him so much more <3) Because wasn’t the half-heart R!Syao gave “Our!Syao” supposed to be the good side, whilst he was left with the bad side inside him (yin yang and all that)? Is CLAMP really trying to get the moral across that being unrealistically perfect=automatic win?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---Strong would have been not starting to say crap about “Are you leaving because of me?” when Sakura took that hit.
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You mean that bit just before she got stabbed by Fai? Lets face it though that’s what all us readers were thinking at that stage. Remember when everyone hated Sakura (I didn’t) when she was trying to leave because they assumed that she just couldn’t stand being around R!Syaoran and the group anymore?
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---Or anytime he grabbed her instead of talking with her.
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That is such a CCS!Syaoran thing to do though! Keeping quiet.. showing his emotions through his eyes.. not properly explaining how he feels but doing physical things to show he cares.. And if Sakura is supposed to be like her CCS counterpart.. she should be falling for R!Syaoran since he has the same soul as the CCS!Syaoran that CCS!Sakura fell in love with.. The full heart.. (not only the half that Our!Syaoran had).. with flaws and all.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---R!Syaoran had to have been melted or whatever you wanted to call it before going into that tube or else he wouldn’t have risked precious things to him like relationship, time, and freedom to not only protect Sakura and Watanuki, but to give chance to the clone as well :/
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Well CCS!Syaoran (sorry, keep mentioning him :evil6:) had always cared for people, just not loved... Like, true love.
Soooo, even before R!Syaoran’s heart melted he still could have cared for Watanuki.. Just not loved him like I think he does for Sakura.. It was the love that melted his heart.. not just simply caring for someone. IMO.
--- Quote from: Mari on August 02 2007, 11:29 am ---On a side note…thank you for being a R!SyaoranxSakura fan who doesn’t use the argument “because I feel sorry for him…” as validation of why he should be with Sakura. I respect you greatly because of it <3
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And I know it's not really quite the same thing but, thank you for not just using the argument that the Clone should be with Sakura simply because “he was there from the beginning”. Loads of people seem to use that and, to me, that is not a valid argument since it was actually FWR that put him there in the first place.
Mari:
>Sorry, but the quote button isn't working for me ^^;;
The Clone = A body without a heart
R!Syaoran = A body with a full heart (half of which he temporarily lost but has now regained)
Our!Syaoran = R!Syaoran’s half heart living in the clone’s body Syaoran-kun.
+
Sakura = Wife to all
He knew that somebody's heart had an affection for Sakura (because he watched everything through the eye). He knew that the affection either came from his own heart or a possible grown heart in Cloney.. or both.
Soooo, even before R!Syaoran’s heart melted he still could have cared for Watanuki.. Just not loved him like I think he does for Sakura.. It was the love that melted his heart.. not just simply caring for someone. IMO.
If Syaoran-kun was supposed to be the good side then why did he need to be “melted”? >.> And if there was no "relationship" or love because there was no “warmth” then the price would be unsatisfactory :/
R!Syaoran does have faults
*coughs* He surely does….
Actually. Being perfect=auto fail in this fandom. Which is why people don’t like Syaoran-kun or Sakura (that and the fact she’s a girl…). It kills me when people knock on him and Sakura for being perfect. I mean, even something little like how he let Sakura off to faint back in Lake showed he had faults too. You might think R!Syaoran’s little things are cute but I can’t see anything of R!Syaoran RIGHT NOW other than a poorly developed character. IMO CLAMP screwed the boy over big time. I had big hopes for him and he turned out to be more of a panel-filler and an angst maker. I’m sorry if I sound like a *word that probably shouldn’t be used in forum* but it’s truly how I feel at this point in the story…..nothing to do with R! really, more to do with how CLAMP has portrayed him thus far.
And maybe his spot up to Syaoran-kun’s that lowers him. Syaoran-kun was the main character so we got to see inside his mind where R! it’s totally the opposite…instead of mysterious it just makes him flat. When I read it I feel like CLAMP keeps him that way because they’re not entirely sure of his fate yet so they don’t want him saying anything that could screw up a plan that hasn’t been formed yet….which in turn makes the story flat :/
He's really bad at being like his CCS! counterpart though, because one of the greatest things he had with CCS!Sakura was to be able to talk to work things out that they only knew.
You mean that bit just before she got stabbed by Fai? Lets face it though that’s what all us readers were thinking at that stage.
Everyone? Stay off the Tsubasa forums. They only hurt your brain xDD Sakura is/has been my favorite character from the beginning <3 Anyone who actually reads the series would have known she wouldn’t do something like that. It’s just in that moment, to say that, it was so awkward and whiny xP I really didn’t like the whole Infinity Arc. Mostly because R!Syaoran didn’t live up to holding interest to keep the story going.
It’s sort of sad. Most of the hype around here about ZOMG new chapters!! Died with that arc :/
doing physical things to show he cares....
It is defiantly not coming out that way. Instead it’s like he’s trying to hold her back and “over” protect her, like I was saying. If he cared he would have had a closer eye on her, instead he failed and it seemed Kuro-pon was even was more aware of what she was up to.
And I know it's not really quite the same thing but, thank you for not just using the argument that the Clone should be with Sakura simply because “he was there from the beginning”. Loads of people seem to use that and, to me, that is not a valid argument since it was actually FWR that put him there in the first place.
LoL I think it’s pretty much exactly the same ^^;; because it’s the counter argument of “he’s there right now so they should be together”
And actually hitsuzen brought him there xDD
Ok. It feels like our conversation is going in circles now and for the last five posts >.>
I’m sure both of us sound really stupid to all viewers of this thread (Yay to us xD) We’re fighting for things that we don’t know all about, so what we’re doing is trying to push our own theories out against each other when they don’t want to be taken ^.^;;
So let me try something else. I wanna ask you this since I know your view will be different:
What do you think R!Syaoran’s referring to when he said “even if that heart doesn’t return….”?
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