AuthorTopic: Ashura  (Read 31980 times)

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Offline bLuetopaz

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #60 on: September 04 2005, 07:09 am »
That Ashura wasn't female... It's erm.. Both. It ain't a boy and it ain't a girl... And yes, they are related, that Ashura is Ashura-ou's 'son'. In RG Veda, they call it his 'son' so I usually say 'he' when talking about either one of them. But you two both made a good point, maybe it would take Fai using his magic for Moko to sense it... That'd be cool...

hehe.. im a little confuse.. you mean the sleeping Ashura is Ashura-ou's son? or is it the other way around?

thanks for the info!


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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #61 on: September 04 2005, 07:48 am »
No no, Fai's Ashura is Ashura-ou, the feminine Ashura is Ashura-ou's son...In RG Veda, that is. However, in TRC, so far there has been no mention of Fai's Ashura having a son. However, Fai *might* know the feminine Ashura even if they aren't related in TRC because of this:

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When Fai and Kuro go to Shurano/Sharano.. I forget which one... The god in that country is called Ashura-ou, but it is *not* Fai's Ashura, it's the feminine one. So far in TRC we don't know if fem. Ashura is Fai's Ashura's son. But, apparently Fai might know fem. Ashura because when the people talked about fem. Ashura, Kuro said Fai had a certain look in his eyes. Right when Fai was about to explain it, they were interrupted by another person. So, do to that, we don't know what Fai's relationship to that Ashura was.

DANG that was a long spoiler.[/color]
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Offline bLuetopaz

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #62 on: September 04 2005, 10:17 am »
oic.. thanks for the info (again)!

too bad Fye and the fem. Ashura did not meet in Shurano.. if not, we will be able to know more about them..


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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #63 on: September 04 2005, 10:22 am »
oic.. thanks for the info (again)!

too bad Fye and the fem. Ashura did not meet in Shurano.. if not, we will be able to know more about them..

I KNOW! I was so mad about that! Back then I thought, "FINALLY a Fai-related world!" As soon as I saw Ashura I was SURE it was gonna be all Fai for at least two chapters! Then... *vein* There was none... In fact, in several Shurano/Sharano chapters, there was no Fai OR Kurorin in the chapter at ALL... *vein vein* But whatever his relationship is with this Ashura, if he has one at all, it must not have been bad because he didn't have a very dramatic reaction. (Which I hope he has if we ever see his Ashura! I love drama! XD)
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Offline bLuetopaz

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #64 on: September 04 2005, 10:29 am »
yeah.. i also thought that part of the manga will focus more on Fye.. but nope and worst, so little Kuro-san and Fye-san.. they also did not say anything more about Yasha-ou..

that same part only focus on the fem. Ashura, Yuuko, Syaoran, Sakura and Mokona.. and i was a little surprised that the fem. Ashura knew Yuuko..


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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #65 on: September 04 2005, 11:55 am »
Yeah, I was, too... I just can't believe Fai and Kuro could've POSSIBLY been in that world together for SIX months without Fai learning ANY of the language, without a single mention of Fai's Ashura (unless he's not in that world...), or without any.... heh heh... shounen-ai... events... ocurring... Or maybe that last one is just me...
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Offline Domeki-kun

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #66 on: September 10 2005, 06:18 am »
I think that Ashura is creepy bastard. And that he has done something terrible to Fai. Do you think that he is a gay?He really looks like one. XD
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Offline Grim Reaper

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #67 on: September 10 2005, 06:23 am »
It is possible in Clamp's works.  They have more yaoi couples then straight. When you read Clamp, get use to it!

Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #68 on: September 10 2005, 08:48 am »
Heh heh, I hope SOMEBODY is! *wink wink* *points to avatar*
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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #69 on: October 18 2005, 11:40 am »
Umm... Well, I personally think that the Ashura from Shurano and Fai's Ashura are the same person in so far as the share the same soul/personality/core; they are different versions of the same person, as we've seen countless times before in Tsubasa.  I suppose it's possible that they're not- that one is the other's father or whatever, but I really don't see any evidence to support that.

Read this bit from Chapter 72:

Kurogane: You still haven't met that someone from your world, have you? The reason you keep running away. It's the same face... However, it's not necessarily the same person.

Fai (with the single most angsty look he's EVER HAD):I would know... if it's just the same face or if it's the same person. I would know.

Another translation of same bit:

Kurogane: Well, you haven't met yours, either, have you? Your little reason why you're on the run. But if he's got the same face... You might not be able to tell.

Fai (with the single most angsty look he's ever had- I really can't express just how angsty and hot it is): I'd know. I'd know if he just looked the same or if it were really him. I would know.

This entire conversation is started because they've just met Piffle Country's version of Tomoyo. Fai had just commented how that Tomoyo looked exactly like Kuro's Tomoyo but wasn't actually the same person. The whole sharing-the-same-soul-but-living completely-different-lives thing.

Kuro comments back about how he (Fai) hadn't met the person he's running away from (Ashura) either. He is almost certainly refering to the version of Ashura they met in Shurano and the fact that he looked exactly like the Ashura Fai had sealed away. *IF* the Shurano Ashura and Ashura that Fai sealed are not different versions of each other, how much sense does this conversation make?

Besides, to have TWO different souls with the name Ashura would confuse things far, far far too much, even for Clamp. Clamp loves to pull weird crap, but that would just be unnecessarily complicated, as if Tsubasa weren't complicated enough with all its different versions of the same soul. No, I definitely think that they are simply two versions of the same person. If not, that would absolutely over-complicate things. There is such a thing as too much complexity, and that would, I think cross the line. It would serve no purpose whatsoever that I can think of.

Somebody earlier mentioned about Fai's Ashura and Shurano's Ashura having different hairstyles- well, Piffle-World Tomoyo has a completely different hairstyle from Kuro-Tomoyo. Hairstyle by itself is not a reliable way to distinguish between characters.

Somebody also said earlier that Fai wasn't scared of Ashura... Well, you can certainly interpret things however you want, but personally, if Fai weren't scared of Ashura, why exactly is Fai running from him? Because he's scared for Ashura, trying to protect Ashura? That has some validity, but I'm far from convinced.

My pet theory is that Fai and Ashura were lovers, along with Fai being his wizard. Ashura, however, did something or another, or a great deal or something or anothers, and Fai eventually was forced to betray and seal him away to prevent Ashura from inflicting any more evil on the world. Thus, why Fai is so angsty and depressed- he was forced to betray the man/woman/whatever he had deeply loved and respected.

And I don't think that Fai was a prince or anything. First, Chii calling Fai 'King'? That was a mistranslation (thanks a lot, DelRay). Plus, you know how the beginning of each chapter starts with a sketch of a character(s) along with a little catchphrase? Well, I'm ninety percent certain that one had a picture of Fai, and said mentioned something about 'sealing his master.' Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure.

I too believe that Fai and Kuro haven't told the whole truth about Shurano. If they couldn't talk, then how did they come up with their plan to pretend not to know Syaoran on the battlefield? They must, at some point, have been able to communicate. Whether they talked about Ashura or not, I don't know. Maybe.
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Offline Meowzy

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #70 on: October 18 2005, 08:06 pm »
but it's really obvious that fem. Ashura and Ashura from Ceres country are not the some person. i mean, come on! just place them next to each other and compare.
Ashura from Shura country is incredibly femine and his hair is a bit different too. also, he's much more... slender.
Ashura-ou from Ceres country has these odd jewels on his forehead (though those could represent a crown or something...), and he looks a whole lot... larger. he's just built bigger and manlier than feminine Ashura from Shura country.
let's not forget the fact that Shura Ashura looks a bit younger.

so i agree when people say Ceres country Ashura represents the father from RG Veda, and Shura country Ashura represents the son.
i've never read RG Veda though. it's such an expensive manga... i can't afford it. ^^'

when it comes down to personality however, I don't know. Shura Ashura could have the same personality Ceres Ashura (once) had. But Fai never met Shura Ashura, except for in battle. So he wouldn't recognise that personality. (hence coming back to the conversation in Pfiffle)

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Offline Jeannette

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #71 on: October 19 2005, 03:09 pm »
If you remember, the statue of the goddess Ashura that they have in Sharano looks different from the Ashura we actually meet in Shurano. The goddess they worship in the Yuuka district has MUCH lighter hair color, and is drawn a bit more feminine that the Ashura in Shurano (yes, it is possible to make Ashura look even more feminine). Yet, the Ashura of the past and Ashura the Goddess of Sharano are one and the same. Remember, Ashura is very, very, very androgynous. Why wouldn't s/he look more masculine in one world and more feminine in another? Besides, how much of Fai's Ashura have we seen? Only a few shots here and there. As I said, it's possible they are two completely different souls. It's entirely possible that I'm completely, utterly wrong. But, as I said in my last post, I think that to have two different souls with the same name would be... really, really pointlessly confusing. Having one soul living in two different worlds is confusing enough.  To have the father/child distinction would just add a really silly layer that would add no true depth to the story. Plus, I believe the conversation in Piffle is clearer and more consistent if one takes my view. And I have a strong faith in Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the most correct, even in Clamp. There is definitely a point where further complexity just becomes cumbersome and pointless, as I said.
Of course, this is Clamp.Therefore, until we have more evidence, I'll stick to my guns.
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Offline kolaida

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #72 on: October 21 2005, 07:25 am »
This was the most hilarious thing to read! XD  I absolutely love the idea of Fai being a feather! OMG! Could you just see the looks on Kurogane, Syaoran, and Sakura's faces if Fai were to just, like.... go *poof* and there's like a feather where Fai used to be?! That would be so priceless!  Didn't Syaoran say something about Fai being able to dodge things like he were a feather or piece of paper or something (somewhere in volume 2; can't remember the exact wording).  But, wow, that would be great. Now, I half hope he IS a feather because I've never seen a person turned into a feather or viceversa! That would rock!   Although, it would be very weird. O_O But still neat!

I honestly hope Ashura doesn't follow Fai through different dimensions because they were lovers. That would just be so--- mushy.  And, I don't know, I mean if Ashura is a king of a country why would he live his kindgom to go chase after one person? I mean, this one person must've really irritated the living daylights out of him and even if it were love then why would the other person be on the run from him. Unless Ashura's a king with no country anymore and it's thanks to this one person?  I mean, I could see dimension travel for that purpose, but other stuff  just seems kind of.....overdramatic. And then there were dead bodies lying around in the Fai intro.  But I really want to see, like, Ashura on a mad mission of vengeance or something along those lines. I'd also like it if Ashura turned out to be a "good guy" as well.

Also, I figured Chi calling Fai "king" might be a mistranslation.  But, on the same token, since Fai made Chi, I guess there really isn't anything wrong with her calling him her king.  Also, the back of the first book refers to Fai as a ruler of his land. I don't know if that was a mistranslation or spoiler slipup.  And I realize he introduces himself as wizard, but no one said he couldn't be both, right? ^^ But it is possible that maybe he and Ashura were at war or something? I mean, does he ever flat out call Ashura *his* King? (I haven't read every volume out) I know he says "King Ashura" but here, in the US, we refer to royalty in other countries as "Prince soandso, Princess soandso, etc" but we never mean it as *our* prince, princess, king or queen.  Of course, I am just completely rambling now.

I have a feeling that when Fai's past is revealed concerning his connections to Ashura there will be plenty of gray lines and I doubt Fai will be completely innocent. Also, I think, somehow, Kurogane's lesson about unnecessary death will really come to light at this point. I could be completely wrong, though. Ah, yeah, I also noticed that the markings on Fai's back and Ashura's little--what is that called--watercoffin?? were the same.  Also, I won't be surprised if Ashura has a feather.

Eh, but I really would find it funny if Fai were a feather! That would just be hilarious!  Wow, that was long. *sweatdrop* Sorry. I ramble.

Offline Meowzy

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #73 on: October 22 2005, 06:23 am »
*flips back a few pages*
Fai being a feather? Har har! yeah, i never linked Fai's tattoo to the feathers. But if he were a feather, and the tattoo was removed, what kind of consequences would that have?
and better yet, would Kurogane cry if the feather was returned to Sakura's body? XD

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Offline AkaiYuki

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #74 on: October 25 2005, 05:25 am »
Hmmm.. I haven't totally read everything that's been added here, ((Because they're so looong!!!)) But I believe there has been some Ashura confusion going on in here! Celes' Ashura, in RG Veda, is Ashura-OU, and the other Ashura is just Ashura. Because femme Ashura is Ashura-ou's SON. ((It has no gender, but it is addressed as his son in RG Veda)) What I think is causing confusion here is in Tsubasa, they're both addressed as Ashura-ou. The Ashura is Shurano and the statue in Sharano ARE the same guy, because the statue is just a statue of him. ((I also saw something about light hair color mentioned? Ashura's hair color never changed, if anyone thought he suddenly went blonde, it was probably because it was a statue so it's grey, making it look blondish in manga...)) And Meowzy-chan, If Fai IS a feather, or if ANYTHING bad happens to him, Kuro BETTER cry or CLAMP is in for some major trouble when I meet them! *growls*
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Offline kiumi flowrite

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Re: Ashura
« Reply #75 on: June 29 2008, 01:45 pm »
*EXTREAM SPOILERS!!!*

you see in the beginning Ashura was meant to be evil, fei wang reed tricked fai into being his minion by killing his brother and placing 3 curses on him, and so someone was sent BY FEI-WANG REED to get fai, that was Ashura, but ashura fell in love with fai and gave him the tattoo to control his magic and temporarily rid him of 1 of his curses, Ashura killed everyone in Seresu after making Fai promise to destroy anything that hurt Seresu he knew that fei-wang reed would get rid off the tattoo so by making fai kill him he rid fai of that curse permanently, but Fai couldn't bring himself to kill Ashura and sealed him in sleep...but Ashura would eventually wake up