The heresy that is Cardcaptors.

[fisah]

I watched the dub first, then CCS, and Im glad I watched CC first, because, it got me into CCS, and well, it was bearable in some points, they really did show some good stuff, but the thing that irks me is the fact they cut out all the S x S scenes, other than that, I can deal.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

Well okay so there were "5 second" cuts here and there. Nothing major. And my opinion is that that webmaster is a moron. Sakura "introducing herself" is not character development, it's Japanese "poiltness". In Japan when you meet a girl her age they WILL say for example "Hi my name's Yumi Ohara. My hometown is Koshigaya and my hobbies are tv, music and everything pink. I'm12 years old..." etc, etc, etc. They obviously took this out because it's completely unnatural in an English speaking culture for someone to introduce themselves like that. What the dub company did, i.e. "My name's Sakura. This is the day my life changed...", etc is completely natural in the telling of a story.

I take offense to you calling Tenchi (the webmaster of CCU) a moron, since he's a friend and a really great person.  And Sakura's introductions are a part of her character developement because her introductions changes overtime.  For example, at the beginning of CCS, Sakura says her least favorite subject is Math because she's not very good at it, but later in the series she says in her narration that she's starting to like Math more because of Mizuki-sensei and she's getting better at it.   You wouldn't know that she's getting better in Math without that introduction because they don't show it in the actual show.

She also mentions in her narrations later on after Yukito "rejects" her that if she saw Yukito again, her feelings for him would be a different kind of feeling than what she used to feel earlier in the series, so it is an important part of her character development.  Of course it's going to sound unnatural for English viewers because CCS isn't  made for English.  Practically the entire show is unnatural for English viewers.  But if you can't translate something well into English without cutting something out, you shouldn't cut it out; you should just not translate it.  And there is a big difference between something being entirely uncut and only a few seconds being cut.  Even if all of the visual footage is left in-tact, if there's even a few changes in the dialog that effects the flow of the original show, along with name and music changes, that would still not be uncut.  After all, the CC movie dub didn't have any visual footage cut, but you wouldn't call that dub uncut, would you?  Real uncut CCS would be like Bang Zoom's dub of the second CCS movie.

[Ruby Chan]

Actually, the first CC movie did have some visual cuts....not many, but a couple. And also, some scenes were shifted into different orders.

I would say that a dub is uncut if the script includes coverage of all origianl storylines and major plot turns. Otherwise, if the dub misses out on a few petty descriptive comments, then that's ok. To make a japanese anime suitable for foreign audiences, sacrifices have to be made, as not everyone understands the culture of the original broadcasters.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

If they don't understand all of the culture stuff in the original show, the dubbing companies should take this oppurtunity to teach some foreign culture to kids.  Like, they could include culture notes at the beginning of the show before the opening credits or something to explain things to kids.  That could make the show not only fun but educational, too.  And aren't most parents obessesed with having their kids watch at least some sort of educational shows when they watch TV?

[Arcademan]

And not only do I have Cardcaptor Takato's back on this, I have the whole Cardcaptors Uncensored Unlimited back. I don't appreciate you calling Tenchi a moron, The CCU is a great place and though I'm a relative n00b there compared to most of the members there, they welcomed me with open arms...however I understand it's your opinion. That said, if I thought someone was being a so-called moron, I wouldn't say it in a public forum. Cool?!!

Now...back to topic...it was my viewing of Cardcaptors on the WB schedule that got me hooked since I'm into mystical stuff but felt there was quite a bit of information missing in the translation. Then I finally saw the original version of Cardcaptor Sakura and it all fell into place and the rest is history

[fisah]

I agree with you guys, it would be awesome if the fans made the dub, we would know what to keep in and stuff. But then again, Nelvana already made the point of making the show for MALES, so maybe that's why they didn't give any introductions for Sakura. Not only that, Sakura in CC was captured as a secondary character..so maybe it isn't something to do with cultural diffrences, but rather to equalize the characters. We know that Syaoran didn't get much of a big introduction, in fact, his history was pretty rushed. Not only till we saw the Erase episode did we know some things.

And if it had to do with cultural diffrences, well then, it would have been a good idea to add in some stuff about Japan and stuff. It would make it really intersting, but this show was intended for kids, I highly doubt they'd read the stuff. Not only that, CC was based on action, I really don't think Nelvana even THOUGHT of making the show educational.

[Sakaki]

*** Of course it's going to sound unnatural for English viewers because CCS isn't�  made for English.�  Practically the entire show is unnatural for English viewers.�  But if you can't translate something well into English without cutting something out, you shouldn't cut it out; you should just not translate it.� ***

Right!
That's just it, the show is JAPANESE.
Sure there are going to be things that people of other cultures might not "get", but that's no excuse for taking it out.
I think that Sakura's introduction at the beginning of the series is important.
If it was important to Japanese culture for that introduction, than it's important to the show. Sakura is Japanese. It's part of her character, part of what makes her think and act the way she does.

So, they felt it was okay to cut out the Japanese-ness of everyone and everything.

***If they don't understand all of the culture stuff in the original show, the dubbing companies should take this oppurtunity to teach some foreign culture to kids.�  Like, they could include culture notes at the beginning of the show before the opening credits or something to explain things to kids.***

I am SO with you on this one!
One of my favorite things about many of the new Manga books that are coming out is that the book company has taken the time to explain some of the Japanese references and words. THAT is so important to me.

Maybe I'm just odd, but when I watch an anime or read a manga, I want to know the story from the same perspective a Japanese person would. Now I know that's not entirely possible, since I'm not Japanese, but I'd like to get as close as I can to what the artist who wrote that book or designed that anime wanted to convey.
If I'm missing out on even a few seconds of the artist's message, then I'm just missing out.

[SandSLover]

i'll have to thank nelvana for introducing me to the anime CCS i think, but after i found out  on the internet that all of it was cutted- i, like many others started to research more on what really happens in CCS- thanks to the fansites that compared the differences- everytime i watch the "Nelvana" version- i always point out to my sister what realli went  on- its quite funny!! 

[Brad]

I do appologise for my comment concerning that "moron" comment (I admit that was too harsh), but I'm honestly not a big fan of that site. It's one thing to list differences but another to assume why the company did it and insult the dubbing company. You can't just translate something puely on the spoken and written language. You really have to take into account the whole context of which something is spoken and the emotion behind it. That whole introduction speach so many character in anime say is honestly the equivalent of a native English speaker saying "Hi". Most of that extra information is not said to portray information but rather out of formality and habit.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do, nor am I dissing Japanese culture (Hell, I live here), but the <i>adaption</i> (which is really what it is, not a translation. Hell, they change character's names so of course it's not a translation so don't treat it as a show that was translated badly) ommission or changing of that intro speach honestly didn't change it that much and probably made it more relatable for girl viewers who are Sakura's age or even ourselves.

Of course, if you actually introduce yourself in that style to strangers in an English conversaion, you can prove me wrong.   Sakura's feelings changing? I think we can get that from the main content of the story. Her maths scores "improving", well good for her, but we find out how well she's doing at school on several occassions like the first movie for example.

I will admit they reduced the homosecuality element, but then they didn't make them "cousins" like the SailormoonS dub.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

As I said before, if you can't translate something well into English, don't translate it at all.  It's that simple.  I don't want to see an adaption of any anime.  I want to see a dub.  A pure uncut dub.  You say that Sakura's narration is the Japanese equalvilent of Americans saying "Hi!", so you think that it was ok for Nelvana to re-write the dialog to have Sakura talking about the Clow Cards?  How is Sakura talking about imaginary cards that don't even exist in the real world more "natural" for English kids to listen to than Sakura introducing herself in the original?  If Sakura's introductions were the Japanese equalivent of Americans saying "Hi!", then why didn't they just translate it for her to say "Hi!" instead of having her spout off endless jibberish about the Clow Cards?  And you forget that Sakura is doing these introductions to herself and the audience.  I doubt that it's very "natural" for Japanese kids to introduce themselves to people they already know and to an imaginary audience, so Sakura's introduction would be rather "unatural" for Japanese audiences, too, don't you think?

Also, you say that you don't like CCU because you claim the webmaster makes assumptions about why Nelvana made changes to CC, well, what the heck do you think you're doing?  You're assuming that Nelvana changed Sakura's introductions to make it more "natural" for English audiences, but how do you know that they did that?  What proof do you have that that's the reason why they changed it?  How do you know that they just didn't change it for the heck of it?  I don't know about you, but to say you dislike a website because its webmaster supossedly makes assumptions about the changes a dubbing company makes to an anime, and then you turn around and make your own assumptions without even backing yourself up seems kind of hypocritical to me.

[Sakaki]

***I will admit they reduced the homosecuality element, but then they didn't make them "cousins" like the SailormoonS dub.***

But they take away Syaoran and Meiling BEING cousins, and they made Yamazaki and Chiharu into cousins.
So, they played around with the relationships quite a bit.

[fisah]

Nelvana tried to amercanize something that just wasn't meant to be amercanized. That's what dubbing companies fail to see nowadays, that a JAPANESE anime isn't meant to be played around with to make it something it just isn't suppose to be.

CCS was an awesome anime because it had alot to do with the japanese culture. A good example is the fact that it was a big deal that Sakura called Syaoran "Syaoran-kun/Li-kun" and vice versa. In the orginal, when they refered to each other with first names, it showed that they became closer. In fact, in the original, Wei mentioned that only close family members only called Syaoran in such a manner, while in the dub, they refered to each other in first name basis from the beginning. So by episode 57, it didn't have such a big impact as it did in the original.

In short, all I'm showing is the fact that japanese culture was big in  CCS, and cutting it out/hiding it  doesn't make the show better. CCS was a japanese made anime, and that's where Nelvana started all the problems. I bet you if Nelvana intended CCS to be what it was intended to be, it would make the dub much better.

[Brad]

As I said before, if you can't translate something well into English, don't translate it at all. It's that simple. I don't want to see an adaption of any anime. I want to see a dub. A pure uncut dub. You say that Sakura's narration is the Japanese equalvilent of Americans saying "Hi!", so you think that it was ok for Nelvana to re-write the dialog to have Sakura talking about the Clow Cards? How is Sakura talking about imaginary cards that don't even exist in the real world more "natural" for English kids to listen to than Sakura introducing herself in the original? If Sakura's introductions were the Japanese equalivent of Americans saying "Hi!", then why didn't they just translate it for her to say "Hi!" instead of having her spout off endless jibberish about the Clow Cards? And you forget that Sakura is doing these introductions to herself and the audience. I doubt that it's very "natural" for Japanese kids to introduce themselves to people they already know and to an imaginary audience, so Sakura's introduction would be rather "unatural" for Japanese audiences, too, don't you think?

Also, you say that you don't like CCU because you claim the webmaster makes assumptions about why Nelvana made changes to CC, well, what the heck do you think you're doing? You're assuming that Nelvana changed Sakura's introductions to make it more "natural" for English audiences, but how do you know that they did that? What proof do you have that that's the reason why they changed it? How do you know that they just didn't change it for the heck of it? I don't know about you, but to say you dislike a website because its webmaster supossedly makes assumptions about the changes a dubbing company makes to an anime, and then you turn around and make your own assumptions without even backing yourself up seems kind of hypocritical to me.

Well basically I think making assumptions about something or someone that is negative i.e. "I bet she sleeps around" compared to making assumptions in positive defense i.e. "She's probably just very friendly" are a bit different. I'm trying to defend the company and their actions, not attack them. That site is using the cut footage and dialogue as proof for why the show, in their opinion, sucks.  That's a bit different than me saying that what they did was understandable.

As for why they didn't just make her say "Hi", well that would have been a LONG silence where originaly she was talking.

[svr]

the american ccs (namely cardcaptors) ,might not be as good as teh original card captor sakura, but it still has its good pts, such as ... oh i dont no and yes ALL Jap anime is better than the American, but thats because of the ratings in America see it as a kids show more than an anime... so yeah i wont be as good nor contain i wont say

[Hira]

Yeah... come to think of it, if it wasn't for Cardcaptors... I wouldn't have known that CLAMP has a happier, more optimistic side other than Tokyo Babylon and Rg Veda...
But, then again, if Nelvana REALLY want to make an action based kid's show, they would probably do an even better job dubbing Angelic Layers.  Would you agree?

[Ruby Chan]

I would like everyone to think about this. If you saw CCS broadcast on tv, in japanese with subtitles, instead of being dubbed, would you have stayed there to watch, and got attached to it then?

Probably not...subtitles put a lot of people off. CC may not have been the greatest ever, but it was a little tatse of CCS. It gave CLAMP an important boost in the ratings of peopler who like happier anime.

As for making an action show...Nelvana didn't aim for that, I think. They just tried to m ake what is essentially a shoujo anime into what was 'suitable' for both boys and girls.

[D.J.P]

Ok, how about they wanted to show a loveless (almost) world.

Cutting out the love part did bascially turn it into a action show.

Another note: how many 10 yr olds are as brave as Nelvana tried to make Sakura out to be?

[Cardcaptor Takato]

I would like everyone to think about this. If you saw CCS broadcast on tv, in japanese with subtitles, instead of being dubbed, would you have stayed there to watch, and got attached to it then?

Yes, I would.  I love subtitled anime.  When I first found out about anime the first thing I wanted do was watch anime subbed.  But I do agree that most people are turned off by the idea of watching something subbed.  However, I still think CCS could've gotten a more accurate dub if they had just only cut out stuff for censorship and time length rather than making a lot of pointless changes that don't make any sense, like changing the names of characters or the music for example.  What's the point in changing the music when you already have music composed for you?  Isn't that just a waste of time and money?  I am grateful for CC because it introduced me to CLAMP and CCS, but I think Nelvana should've at least allowed a seperate uncut dub to be produced for a DVD release, like what DiC and ADV did with Saint Seiya.

[moezychan]

Upon reading this forum I was more than prepared to flame Cardcaptors and Nelvana to the full extent of my anger, and you don't want to see the full extent of my anger, but 22 pages later (yes I read all 22 pages) I will admit that Cardcaptors was a benefit to Card Captor Sakura.

From watching Cardcaptors I went on the Internet and found out about Card Captor Sakura that to even this day I love going on the Internet about it.�  And then from reading about it 3 years passed and I eventually found out about this website!�  From watching Tsubasa on here, I searched the Internet hoping that somebody was just as generous and would put up Card Captor Sakura episodes; the original.�  And somebody did!�  Arigatou Gozamasu Sakura Hybrid.�  If anybody is reading this and hasn't seen all 70 episodes, navigate to:
http://neko.sakura-hybrid.com/e107/news.php

They have all 70 episodes plus the two movies!�  But to return to my original message, those who were born in America and like me watched the dubbed first, don't blame Nelvana.�  If they didn't do such a horrible job, we probably wouldn't appreciate the original as much.

[sukina]

thanks, and I understand. I thought that cardcaptors was the only one out there, when I found out it wasnt the original, I was MAD!  I got sooo mad but then I kept looking for Cardcaptor Sakura and found this, the Chronicles, and, thanks to you, the episodes of CCS! Thanks so much! ......when I'm able to give cookies, I'll give you one!