CLAMP's Famous Works > Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE
Favorite couple?
ChosenExiled:
I should be Kurogane x Tomoyo fan forever. I like Sakura x Syaoran too. Fai x Chi is cute. Sorato x Arashi is always nice. Although........I just wish I could at LEAST SEE FUU X FERIO! (My top favorite Clamp couple). I would love to see them again and Hikaru and Lantis too.
touchdown turnarou:
--- Quote from: KratosAurion on November 11 2006, 06:34 am ---Now now, what's up with all the rude reactions? As far as I know I can express my opinions freely here
Let me tell you, I wouldn't be surprised if Kuro and Fai would end up as a pairing, and I know CLAMP likes yaoi stuff. It's not about now knowing CLAMP well, but seriously so far I don't remember a single clue in the manga of them ending up as a pair. Sure, we've seen Fai saying that he wants to be loved, that he's looking for someone to stay with him. We've seen them talking several times. And now Kuro saved his life, but still, it's got nothing to do with them loving each other. Personally, if a close friend of mine was in danger of dying, i'd do everything possible on my hands to save him, and that has nothing to do with being g4y
So, we're not reading different mangas at all. Tell me at least one real clue in the manga that tells us they will end up as a yaoi pairing, and i'll swallow all my words. Even if they still may end up with each other without any clue at all, you guys keep saying that the manga has all the "proof" that it will be that way
Seriously I didn't expect I would be eaten up by half the users in this forum. It's just an opinion, and as much as i hate yaoi pairings i respect your opinions, your theories, everything. And if you're so upset that someone else thinks differently, man, I didn't know my opinion could change the outcome of the series...
--- End quote ---
Do you truly want me to list all the clue you have "missed"? I can do that if you wish. The clues have been pretty blatant, indeed, Fay flirting with Kurogane is very hard to miss unless you personally do not want to see such thing. It's a matter of perception, if one isn't comfortable with such subject they will automatically view the interaction that is intended to be viewed in a non platonic manner as platonic.
I'm sorry, but the clues are there. There's plenty. If you don't want to see them, you won't, but CLAMP has included some pretty blatant clues (Fay's constant flirting, Kurogane willing to give up anything in order to save Fay's live, Fay quasi-love confession when speaking to Yuuko) and some more subtle clues (symbology dealing with the whole yin/yang theme they have going on). I've met plenty of male TRC fans who have seen the numerous Kuro/Fay clues and trust me, they are straight males who don't go around looking for subtext like we fangirls do. So, it is definitely there. That you don't want to see it is another thing..
(Though I can safely bet you that if Fay, or Kurogane for the matter, were a female, many of the people "not seeing anything" would screaming canon at the top of their lungs with us.)
Sp, you really want me to list of the clues you've "missed"?
KratosAurion:
--- Quote from: touchdown turnarou on November 11 2006, 01:41 pm ---Do you truly want me to list all the clue you have "missed"? I can do that if you wish. The clues have been pretty blatant, indeed, Fay flirting with Kurogane is very hard to miss unless you personally do not want to see such thing. It's a matter of perception, if one isn't comfortable with such subject they will automatically view the interaction that is intended to be viewed in a non platonic manner as platonic.
I'm sorry, but the clues are there. There's plenty. If you don't want to see them, you won't, but CLAMP has included some pretty blatant clues (Fay's constant flirting, Kurogane willing to give up anything in order to save Fay's live, Fay quasi-love confession when speaking to Yuuko) and some more subtle clues (symbology dealing with the whole yin/yang theme they have going on). I've met plenty of male TRC fans who have seen the numerous Kuro/Fay clues and trust me, they are straight males who don't go around looking for subtext like we fangirls do. So, it is definitely there. That you don't want to see it is another thing..
(Though I can safely bet you that if Fay, or Kurogane for the matter, were a female, many of the people "not seeing anything" would screaming canon at the top of their lungs with us.)
Sp, you really want me to list of the clues you've "missed"?
--- End quote ---
Go ahead. I guess it's a matter of perception like you said. Maybe you're right that i don't want to see it, but i don't see any clue when Kuro wants to save Fai's life or when he talks with Yuuko. But I guess you could also take it as a confession
Don't think I posted to start argueing here. I just found all those offensive replies asking for reasons and that's what I did. I think everyone is free to interpretate the interaction between Fai and Kuro the way they want, and that's what makes people have different opinions. To me, there's still not a clue that suggests that they will end up as a pairing, unlike SxS, when we see them blushing or when Sakura kisses Syaoran's eye. There's no room for interpretation there, unlike KuroxFai's case
I hope i explained myself and if i offended anyone I apologize
touchdown turnarou:
--- Quote from: KratosAurion on November 11 2006, 01:54 pm ---Go ahead. I guess it's a matter of perception like you said. Maybe you're right that i don't want to see it, but i don't see any clue when Kuro wants to save Fai's life or when he talks with Yuuko. But I guess you could also take it as a confession
Don't think I posted to start argueing here. I just found all those offensive replies asking for reasons and that's what I did. I think everyone is free to interpretate the interaction between Fai and Kuro the way they want, and that's what makes people have different opinions. To me, there's still not a clue that suggests that they will end up as a pairing, unlike SxS, when we see them blushing or when Sakura kisses Syaoran's eye. There's no room for interpretation there, unlike KuroxFai's case
I hope i explained myself and if i offended anyone I apologize
--- End quote ---
You didn't offend me in any way, so don't worry. We are merely debating and as long as we keep this civil, everything's fine.
Let me just say for once that one cannot deny the fact that Syaoran/Sakura will become a couple because, besides the obvious hints that they like each other, it has been established in a previous work that they are indeed soulmates. If we didn't have that piece of information, everyone would be free to interpret the interaction whichever way they chose, which is pretty obviously romantic, but there's a couple of dense people out there that would probalby merely see it as platonic. So, even if a pairing makes out and does the deed, if they are not explicitily stated to be a couple, there's still room for interpretation.
Ok, you asked for it! :keke:
(Cut for length + spoilers for recent chapters!)
Show contentNow, let’s see, first and foremost, you have the interaction between the two since the first time the met. The blatantly flirtatious nature of Fay’s bantering (and do not say that that is simply Fay’s personality and that he acts that way towards everyone because it is a lie. He is rather polite to most strangers and he himself said that Kurogane had been the first person he ever treated that way when he had that conversation with Yuuko), the way Kurogane saw through Fay’s façade when no one else did, the way they compliment each other so nicely, etc. All of those are the most obvious aspects, and if you don’t see them, I am just inclined to believe that it is simply because you do not wish to.
Let’s continue with the latest development, Kurogane’s recent actions and his willingness to sacrifice anything (even returning to his cherished Nihon) in order to save Fay from dying, something which even if you do not interpret as romantic (which I cannot fathom how why but that’s merely me), you have to admit that it’s pretty significant. Kurogane, knowing that Yuuko would ask for a really high, perhaps even unreasonable, price did not hesitate even once. You have to also keep in mind that before this event, Kurogane had shown that he didn’t trust Yuuko and didn’t overall like her very much, so Fay must’ve been someone truly important for him if he reduced himself to asking for her help. Now, let’s speak about the price, which Yuuko said was incredibly high and it would be quite heavy to bear, so that’s why she had Kurogane asked to fill the underground reservoir and as an exchange, Subaru gave some of his blood. Another indication that Fay is highly important for Kurogane and notice how this situation mirrors the sacrifice Syaoran made at the beginning of the manga for the sake of Sakura. (But I guess since Syaoran and Sakura aren’t a same-sex couple there is no skepticism, right?) Also, it is important to notice, that Kurogane’s actions were incredibly selfish. Fay wanted to die yet Kurogane completely ignored his wishes and went against them. So, the argument that Kurogane was the only person that could do anything at the moment and that’s the reason he did it is simply ludicrous.
(Oh, and remember that line when Fay's drinking Kuro's and Kamui's blood? "His companion's feelings have reached him.." and the line on the splash page with Kuro, chapter 124 I believe, that says how Kurogane's "have come to understand the meaning of true strength"? Yeah, I don't think the timing of those lines were any coincidence. Neither does Yuuko, I'm sure.)
Fay’s quasi-love confession, I do not know how anyone can view it as non-significant and thing that the closeness he spoke of wasn’t romantic in any way, but nevermind. In his conversation with Yuuko he revealed how he had never given anyone nicknames ("Just accept them as a token of my love!" from the Tsubasa Character Book) before and had enjoy teasing Kurogane quite a bit (sounds a lot like flirting to me) yet he never realize he had crossed the line. He would never forgive Kurogane from doing what he did for him because he feared getting any closer to the ninja. Yet, as we’ve seen in the recent chapters, he’s treating both Sakura and Mokona exactly as he treated them before and ignoring Kurogane. Why would that be? Perhaps because the closeness between him and Kurogane differs quite a bit from his closeness to Sakura and Mokona and thus presents a risk for him and perhaps even Kurogane. After all, Fay did state before does not want anyone to get harmed because of him, so that’s why he pushes everyone away. But in this case, he’s only pushing Kurogane away…
There are quite a lot of hints throughout the manga, but I would have to stay up all night if I wanted to list all of them. But I will list the one moment that made me a Kurogane/Fay fan and that I cannot comprehend how anyone can interpret as not meant to be romantic: in Outo, in the Clover bar, as Oruha sings that ballad of hers about waiting for someone to take her away and Kurogane, being his usual self, comments why she doesn’t leave is she wishes to. Then Fay states just how he’s always been waiting for someone to take him away and he tells who? Kurogane! Zomg, totally a coincidence, you say! And Yuuko dies because she’s said many times before that in the CLAMPverse there isn’t such a thing as coincidence and everything, everything happens for a reason.
Now, there are so many subtle hints ever since the beginning of the manga indicating that CLAMP meant for their relationship to develop into something else. One of the most prominent is the entire yin/yang, opposites attract and compliment each other thing the two of them have going on. There’s a lot of symbolism throughout the manga that supports this pairing quite a lot (and that, once again, if they weren’t both male I’m sure naysayers would’ve caught and accepted long time ago) and I will list some of them:
-Kudans: Kurogane’s a dragon. Fay’s is a phoenix. How’s that significant?
In some Chinese legends, an Emperor might be born with a birthmark in the shape of a dragon. The Empress of China was often identified with the Chinese phoenix...
In ancient China, they can often be found in the decorations for weddings or royalty, along with dragons. This is because the Chinese considered the dragon and phoenix symbolic of blissful relations between husband and wife, another common yin and yang metaphor.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenghuang)
-Kurogane’s color is black and Fay’s is white
-Kurogane’s other color is red and Fay’s is blue
-Daddy/mommy, enough said
-Notice the parallel the group has going once? Syaoran-Kurogane/Sakura-Fay. CLAMP has drawn several instances in which that parallel is remarked
And there’s surely more but I cannot recall everything right now. Also, I probably forgot some crucial things, like I always do, but you get the general idea. If you still cannot "see anything", then I can't help. It's simply a matter of whether your comfortable and accepting and know how CLAMP work.
To me, the fact that I've met people who've read TRC and are in fact following the English releases (which haven't gotten to Acid Tokyo) and have acknowledge the hints indicating the relationship between Kurogane and Fay is not merely brotherly or platonic and that it is bound to develop into something more is enough to tell me that the CLAMP meant for the relationship to be seen that way and that it is quite odd to "not see" the hints at all. Keep in mind that I'm speaking of straight males and females who aren't yaoi fans at all and that aren't also that familiar with CLAMP. They don't go looking for "yaoi" subtext like we fangirls do. Maybe because they don't have any problems with same-sex relationships (and you shouldn't have any problems with m/m or f/f pairings if you call yourself a CLAMP fan) and are quite tolerant?
Kazemon15:
--- Quote from: touchdown turnarou on November 11 2006, 04:34 pm ---Let’s continue with the latest development, Kurogane’s recent actions and his willingness to sacrifice anything (even returning to his cherished Nihon) in order to save Fay from dying, something which even if you do not interpret as romantic (which I cannot fathom how why but that’s merely me), you have to admit that it’s pretty significant.
--- End quote ---
Hmm can I state my opinion? I read another translation that said "What can I do?" ...instead of "I'll do anything" ...various translations and many ways to interpert them, my mon taught Japanese students for 30 years and even they said that there are many translations for one saying. The fact that a KuroFai fangirl is translating the manga in what terms she thinks is best is fine, as long as she tells the translations can vary.
And now saying about translations....Del Rey has a bunch of professional translators that translate the material in which they think is the best and easiest way for readers to understand, just like the fan translators are doing.
Anyway, not trying to cause argument, but the "I'll do anything" part cant really count because it has many various translations...
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version