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Um, yes. ^^; Talk about the couple [ or lack there of.. ], and have fun. <3
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Uh. Okie. 8D
Uhm.. I absolutely love SxS. I want Cloney for Sakura, even though R!Syaoran's nice and all that.. but, he's just not C!Syaoran, and it's C!Syaoran who Sakura fell in love with. v.v
I've been scrounging FF.net for fluffy SxS fanfics, but the place obviously lacks it, so, to make things easier for me, would anyone mind linking some fluffy stuff that you've read lately? ='D
Also, here's one fanfiction I found that practically realized my fangirl dreams.
Desperation (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3341472/1/)
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yey the thread is back!!! i just hope all the fans return so we can talk bout our favorite couple *pout*
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Yeah, me too~
I could write you a fluffy fanfic if you wanted Ying. :D *ish the fluffy expert...kinda* :3
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Hmm, I think it is a good place to discuss something...
We know that Sakura loves Real Syaoran. But, one thing makes me wonder: if the Real Syaoran has got the Clones heart (or most likely: if the Clone had Real Syaoran’s heart), then wouldn’t he be the one that loves Sakura…? And the Clone wouldn’t be the one? If the Clone doesn’t have a heart then how can he love Sakura? And one more thing: if this theory is true then isn’t Real Syaoran the one with the heart that Sakura loves? It would be a very sad ending, if Clone Syaoran and Sakura won’t end up together :sad5: I really like Real Syaoran, but I would prefer Clone Syaoran with Sakura…
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Sakura doesn't love R!Syaoran, but I think R!Syaoran cares about her whenever he looks at her all angsty.
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I'm pretty sure that RSyaoran will sacrifice himself and will give his whole heart to clone, cause he wants Sakura's happiness and protect her. Sad, but sensible idea.
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I'm pretty sure that RSyaoran will sacrifice himself and will give his whole heart to clone, cause he wants Sakura's happiness and protect her. Sad, but sensible idea.
I think that maybe it won't be a sacrafice but a fusion of the two...? So they become one and both would gain happiness. But it could only work if Real Syaoran dosen't have an another Sakura in his heart...
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I think that maybe it won't be a sacrafice but a fusion of the two...? So they become one and both would gain happiness. But it could only work if Real Syaoran dosen't have an another Sakura in his heart...
Remember that CLAMP doesn't use to make "happy endings" for all the characters. TRC isn't as Sakura or Angelic Layer, so cute and sweet. TRC it's in the middle between X and this ones. ^_^
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Yeah, me too~
I could write you a fluffy fanfic if you wanted Ying. :D *ish the fluffy expert...kinda* :3
XD Yes, please, if it's not a bother. And yeah, you are the fluffy expert. v.v will there be kissing scenes, if ever? :X
I pity R!Syaoran at the moment, Sakura's been so cold to him.. though, I can't bring myself to dislike Sakura. >.< I want to think that she has a good reason to act that way towards him.
And I want more Cloney action. D: where is he, what's he doing?
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I was looking for the SyxSa thread the other day....another strange disappearance? >.>
I don't like the idea of a fushion. Because I like Real Syaoran for him, and I like Clone Syaoran for him. Sakura isn't showing any comfort in the idea of only having Real Syaoran around, so I think combining the two would seriously freak her out.
I know it sounds very strange to base my idea off this but....
You know in the 2nd TRC/xxxHolice drama? How the Syaoran's were twin brothers?
Clone Syaoran and Sakura were together, and even talked about how the other Syaoran knew this and that's why he gave the two time alone.
It's kind of stupid to base off a drama but....CLAMP doesn't mess with a canon pairing when it's set, you know?
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^ *nods* Yeah, the drama! =D I don't think it's stupid to base off a drama, it makes sense, somehow. >.< Because R!Syaoran accepts the fact that Sakura thinks that C!Syaoran is the only "Syaoran", right?
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Somehow xD
I dunno. I always kinda of see Real Syaoran as a brother/friend to Sakura. Because he was there with Clonie and Sakura but....not. That's why I think he would care about the Clone too. He looked verrrrrrrrrrrrry unhappy back when he first came around and he was making an effort there to bring some reality into Clone Syaoran.
So really I see him as a big brother to the two of them O.o
LoL.
Anyways....
Ying Hua! I love your banner!
One of the cutest scenes!! <3
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XD; I found a colored scan in my SxS pics folders. I thought I'd make something out of it. *shrug* Thanks.
A brother's a nice role for him. Though, he did almost kill C!Syaoran back there.. o_o; if it wasn't for Sakura.
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well I do know one thing,
my cousin and I made this play for tsubasa and it worked out well and I love all of your guys' signature and I wish I had a signature but mines won't work.
man I wish I was like you guys. I can't wait for season 3 in April.
although I live in okinawa,japan
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XD Yes, please, if it's not a bother. And yeah, you are the fluffy expert. v.v will there be kissing scenes, if ever? :X
I pity R!Syaoran at the moment, Sakura's been so cold to him.. though, I can't bring myself to dislike Sakura. >.< I want to think that she has a good reason to act that way towards him.
And I want more Cloney action. D: where is he, what's he doing?
I could add a kissing screen if you want~ but as far as the manga is considered I really don't know. CLAMP isn't known for their characters kissing. Just subtle things like hand holding, almost-kisses, hugging, etc etc~
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I think Real Syo wanted to kill him in the way that is similar to when someone pulls on the plug of a person in a state of vegetation.....sort of O_o kind of....Hehe. I don't even know. ^^;; I swear it makes sense in my head!! xD
Oh!
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Recent chapter: Whatever Sakura is scheming has to effect both Syoaran's in some way! I hope we get a glimpse of Clone Syoaran soon.....
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I could add a kissing screen if you want~ but as far as the manga is considered I really don't know. CLAMP isn't known for their characters kissing. Just subtle things like hand holding, almost-kisses, hugging, etc etc~
Nyah, okie, whatever you want them to do, as long as it's fluff. =D;
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Recent chapter: Whatever Sakura is scheming has to effect both Syoaran's in some way! I hope we get a glimpse of Clone Syoaran soon.....
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I agree. I couldn't see any other reason why she'd want something. And yeah, I wanna see Cloney again soon. :(
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Heee my first post XD
I think it's a little sad that Sakura behaves so coldly towards new Syaoran. He was there and experienced everything that Clonie did during their travels, and now he's probably feeling very alientated. I certainly hope Sakura-chan sorts herself out soon, because if she can't bring herself to talk to Syao I think that would make her kind of shallow.
I can't talk though - I was completely on new-Syao's side back in the acid rain country when he was going to kill clonie ^___^ I couldn't understand why Sakura protected him, lol.
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Remember that CLAMP doesn't use to make "happy endings" for all the characters. TRC isn't as Sakura or Angelic Layer, so cute and sweet. TRC it's in the middle between X and this ones. ^_^
Yeah, I know that :sweatdrop: But I still hope at least for one of Syaoran's to have a happy ending...
I don't like the idea of a fushion. Because I like Real Syaoran for him, and I like Clone Syaoran for him. Sakura isn't showing any comfort in the idea of only having Real Syaoran around, so I think combining the two would seriously freak her out.
Well Sakura doesn't need to know ^^' I only meant this fusion because the idea of seeing Real Syaoran dying made me shiver. But Clona Syaoran needs memories and his heart that now belongs to Real Syaoran... And Real Syaoran is a person that really would sacrifice himself for the sake of Clone Syaoran and Sakura...
CLAMP doesn't mess with a canon pairing when it's set, you know?
Hmm... In X I was sure that the canon pairing was Kotori x Kamui, but the what with Kamui x Fuuma? I mean, we aren't sure if Sakura will be with any of the Syaorans... We can only hope for it.
On the other hand, the drama isn't a stupid thing. I'm still confused about Real Syaoran's feelings. It's better to think that he thinks of Sakura like a sister, instead of a lover.
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I agree. I couldn't see any other reason why she'd want something. And yeah, I wanna see Cloney again soon. :(
I agree with that too...
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I wonder how many feathers he has collected so far. It would be impossible to travel to all worlds he was in.
I can't talk though - I was completely on new-Syao's side back in the acid rain country when he was going to kill clonie ^___^ I couldn't understand why Sakura protected him, lol.
Well, I was something like: 'Oh my God, he's going to kill him, somebody stop him', but beacuse of the next scene between Clone Syaoran and Sakura I changed my mind. It must hurt her very much...
And Sakura protected him, because she loves him ^^ if it wasn't for Subaru, who waked her up, she wouldn't stop Real Syaoran...
And now, that I think of it, I'm afraid that we won't have a happy ending between Clone Syaoran and Sakura. Real Syaoran wants to kill him, Kurogane wants Fai's eye (or deosn't he?)...
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I wonder how many feathers he has collected so far. It would be impossible to travel to all worlds he was in.
hehe, Clonie has a special chip and radar in his head :rotfl:
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I think Sakura would know...She knew which Syaoran was hers when she woke up in AcidT. She hadn't been awake the whole time so she wouldn't have known which clothes were his and yet she still called out to the totally pychotic looking boy. If they had shared the same heart, I think Sakura would have more easily just taken Real Syaoran for her Syaoran since he was in the postition of where Clonie would stand. But she didn't. ^_^
Maybe that's another reason why Real Syoaran was so surprised? She was able to tell the two apart and didn't hesitate from it for a second.
Total <3.
Even Fay, who's rather advanced in magic, admitted to the fact that though he knew about Syaoran-kun borrowing a heart he was able to make it into something special and his own. Real Syaoran tells him that Sakura being precious doesn't come from him. And even Kurogane now is telling Real Syaoran that he is his own person and not the "kid"
Ahaha. Sorry. ^^;; Rambling....
So yes. I think Sakura would be able to tell.
Hmm... In X I was sure that the canon pairing was Kotori x Kamui, but the what with Kamui x Fuuma?
True, true. We have to be very careful with CLAMP xD
And I don't think we really know what Real Syaoran wants, especialy in terms of ClonexSakura. He's so vague and keeps to himself a lot. With the whole eye thing, I think we're going to get another twist into that. It's hard to predict how you can get that eye back, since it made no sense how Clone Syaoran gorged an eye out, ate it, and then it mysteriously became one of his eyes....O_o
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It's hard to predict how you can get that eye back, since it made no sense how Clone Syoaran gorged an eye out, ate it, and then it mysteriously became one of his eyes....O_o
That happened in xxxHOLiC also. Watanuki ate half of Doumeki's right-eye "sight" so that he could see a little out of his blinded eye again. I think the whole...ingesting thing is just how they......Do it? Lol. I don't know either!! Both series (TRC, Holic) have had focus on magical powers coming from eyes....Its' still confusing though!
But still, I would like for them to get that eye back!! Fye's pretty blue eye *sniffle* Heehee.
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I think Sakura would know...She knew which Syaoran was hers when she woke up in AcidT. She hadn't been awake the whole time so she wouldn't have known which clothes were his and yet she still called out to the totally pychotic looking boy. If they had shared the same heart, I think Sakura would have more easily just taken Real Syaoran for her Syaoran since he was in the postition of where Clonie would stand. But she didn't. ^_^
Maybe that's another reason why Real Syoaran was so surprised? She was able to tell the two apart and didn't hesitate from it for a second.
Total <3.
Even Fay, who's rather advanced in magic, admitted to the fact that though he knew about Syaoran-kun borrowing a heart he was able to make it into something special and his own. Real Syoaran tells him that Sakura being precious doesn't come from him. And even Kurogane now is telling Real Syoaran that he is his own person and not the "kid"
Ahaha. Sorry. ^^;; Rambling....
So yes. I think Sakura would be able to tell.
True, true. We have to be very careful with CLAMP xD
And I don't think we really know what Real Syoaran wants, especialy in terms of ClonexSakura. He's so vague and keeps to himself a lot. With the whole eye thing, I think we're going to get another twist into that. It's hard to predict how you can get that eye back, since it made no sense how Clone Syoaran gorged an eye out, ate it, and then it mysteriously became one of his eyes....O_o
I don't agree. Real Syaoran had his own sword and Clone Syaoran his own. She couldn't mistook them!
And Kurogane also says, that Syapran should think of the princess to. We still don't know, if it wasn't anything more than Real Syaoran's wish - that the love doesn't come from this heart. Maybe Syaoran's half doesn't love Sakura, but the heart returned to him and that heart loves Sakura. That's why he stopped, when she called out to stop him. Hmm, why he was suprised? Because he knew that she's sleeping with Kurogane... And Fai said that Real Syaoan lived and experienced the same things like the Clone. So why it would be different with love? (but don't worry, I hope that Real Syaoran doesn't love Sakura ^^' )
And about eating eyes - I think that people that posses magic can do it. And because Fai's eye was "magic" Clone Syaoran could ate it.
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Hmm, I don't read xxxHOLiC, but there is a rumor that Real Syaoran is connected with Watanuki in some way.
I think that CLAMP will do a lot of twists in the plot. Maybe we will soon know something about Real Syaoran - his past and his feelings. If only Sakura wanted to talk to him...
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Hmm, why he was suprised? Because he knew that she's sleeping with Kurogane...
Lol! That was the best sentence.
That happened in xxxHOLiC also. Watanuki ate half of Doumeki's right-eye "sight" so that he could see a little out of his blinded eye again. I think the whole...ingesting thing is just how they......Do it?
I so thought of something else when I read that and was like....wha....? xD
When she first woke up neither of them had swords. And the first Syaoran she looked at was Clone Syaoran. There was no pane of any eye contact between Real Syaoran and Sakura. It didn't seem to strike her as odd that the one attacking her precious person looked indentical. All she cared about that the person attacking Clone Syaoran didn't kill him.
And with the surprise...I don't know. I know the obvious reason for it. But Real Syaoran's looks always seem to have something more to them. He looks surprised, upset, and sad all at once.
Kurogane's talk with Real Syaoran....it's very hard since I don't speak Japanese and translators can't get the exact meaning, especially for this phrase, but....when I read it it sounded more like "you don't have to be like the kid and you don't have to think about the princess in relation to yourself as the kid did"
Problem with language. You take it for what you want to see it as and so that is how I saw it ^^;;
Though he shared the experiance, he didn't have a part in it. It was Clone Syaoran who was controling his own body's actions. It was he reaching out for Sakura's hand, him smiling, and him taking her in his arms countless times. The feel is different from the watching. Love is built more on just "being there"
Maybe we will soon know something about Real Syaoran - his past and his feelings. If only Sakura wanted to talk to him...
I second that want.
He's been alone in that tube for so long, so I hope he talks out soon <3
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Lol! That was the best sentence.
Yeah, now that I've read that sentence I sweatdropped :sweatdrop: I meant that Kurogane was looking after her while she was asleep, but I was in a hurry and wrote something stupid like that -_-
Love is built more on just "being there"
Yeah, but I meant that the feeling grew in Real Syaoran not while he was in the tube, but in the moment he recieved his heart back. On the other hand, if the Clone's love for Sakura has nothing to do with his heart, then I would agree, that Real Syaoran doesn't love her and just sees himself as a substitute. I have to agree with Mari-sempai that it's really hard to understand the sentences - and more: it's CLAMP, so the things that characters say, need a translation even for people that are fluent in Japanese ^^'
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Yeah, now that I've read that sentence I sweatdropped :sweatdrop: I meant that Kurogane was looking after her while she was asleep, but I was in a hurry and wrote something stupid like that -_-
Hehe. I'm sorry. As you could see from the other quote I put up....my mind was verrrrry off the topic at hand >.>
Yeah, but I meant that the feeling grew in Real Syaoran not while he was in the tube, but in the moment he recieved his heart back. On the other hand, if the Clone's love for Sakura has nothing to do with his heart, then I would agree, that Real Syaoran doesn't love her and just sees himself as a substitute.
It's hard, isn't it? It's all just a part of the fun and the torment. that is CLAMP-_-;
Ya know....When I was looking back at Chapter 122, I thought it was kinda of interesting that the moment Sakura was saying "My most precious person" and opened her eyes was at the exact time both Syaoran's came together. [/random]
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Ya know....When I was looking back at Chapter 122, I thought it was kinda of interesting that the moment Sakura was saying "My most precious person" and opened her eyes was at the exact time both Syaoran's came together. [/random]
Now my mind is very off the topic ^^'
Yes, I wonder how Subaru knew what is going to happen and woke Sakura up in the exact moment they met...
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Now my mind is very off the topic ^^'
Oh my--
*facepalm*
It's contagious I tell you! ^.^
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I love apostrophies where they don't belong. =D Making
my mind plumit into the gutter me go even further off-topic. No, no. I came with a purpose to post, really! :XD:
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As for Clone and the eye, another seal could always be put on it. Like, Sakura seems to have fairly strong magic. It's just something about her incarnations. While her power seems to be making "physical memories" of dimensions, couldn't she channel her magic to make a seal for Syaoran of some kind (zomg, how about one green eye and one brown one, huh? :o). It'd probably be stronger than Real Syaoran's, as she's...supah powerful? Gah. I lost my topic. But that's one of my theories of how we can get some Clone x Sakura ending going on.
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Yeah, but I meant that the feeling grew in Real Syaoran not while he was in the tube, but in the moment he recieved his heart back. On the other hand, if the Clone's love for Sakura has nothing to do with his heart, then I would agree, that Real Syaoran doesn't love her and just sees himself as a substitute. I have to agree with Mari-sempai that it's really hard to understand the sentences - and more: it's CLAMP, so the things that characters say, need a translation even for people that are fluent in Japanese ^^'
If I remember correctly, R!Syaoran mentioned that the feelings of love C!Syaoran had were from his own heart and not his(R!Syaoran's). And I don't really think R!Syaoran sees himself as a replacement, rather he has a certain responsibility to fill. I'm not sure... @_@ I might just be rambling.
And yeah... it's CLAMP. It could be more than what we see. ^^;;;
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As for Clone and the eye, another seal could always be put on it. Like, Sakura seems to have fairly strong magic. It's just something about her incarnations. While her power seems to be making "physical memories" of dimensions, couldn't she channel her magic to make a seal for Syaoran of some kind (zomg, how about one green eye and one brown one, huh? :o). It'd probably be stronger than Real Syaoran's, as she's...supah powerful? Gah. I lost my topic. But that's one of my theories of how we can get some Clone x Sakura ending going on.
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Hmm.. That's interesting and very possible! I mean, since Sakura has the ability to reach out to those who cannot speak or somewhat can hear their inner thoughts, maybe she can do the same to C!Syaoran... unless C!Syaoran really cannot be helped on that part. ^^;;;) But I dunno... maybe Sakura will be the only one able to save C!Syaoran. @_@
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But I dunno... maybe Sakura will be the only one able to save C!Syaoran. @_@
She helped him grow a heart the first time, so second time around can't be that hard Except for the fact he's a little homosidial...minor detail really xP
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As for Clone and the eye, another seal could always be put on it. Like, Sakura seems to have fairly strong magic. It's just something about her incarnations. While her power seems to be making "physical memories" of dimensions, couldn't she channel her magic to make a seal for Syaoran of some kind (zomg, how about one green eye and one brown one, huh? :o). It'd probably be stronger than Real Syaoran's, as she's...supah powerful? Gah. I lost my topic. But that's one of my theories of how we can get some Clone x Sakura ending going on.
Nice theory! Much better than mine having her go up to him and smile ^^;;
Oh! I also wanted to share this little SyxSa ficlet, Held Tightly (http://community.livejournal.com/tsubasarc/316218.html) by Orchid-Falls (http://orchid-falls.livejournal.com/).
Just a little expansion of Chapter 123/124.
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i don't like the new Sakura =X she looks so dark and she clings too much to fai.. fai belongs to someone else!!! we want SxS!!! and in the recent chapters there is not much chemistry between the 2 which is rather expected since R!Syaoran isn't really the Syaoran she loves..
i hope we can have the original Sakura.. not the frail, weak one though.. i love the Sakura in the Tokyo world.. but now her character is gradually changing and she's constantly troubled.. i miss her smiles..
what fai said was right.. her smile does have a heart-warming effect.. not only on Syaoran but i believe to all her fans..
but i still hope that she ends up with Clonie.. (coz his so hot with his blue eye.. *melts*) it can be seen that she still loves him despite what he is doing in the other worlds.. fai mentioned in chapt 141 that she is trying to help the other worlds because she sees the need to help Syaoran and not truly to help the world itself..
ahhh.. sakura, pls revert back to your old self and pls end up with Clonie!!! and clonie pls appear soon.. i miss his hotness.. xXxXDDD
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Hmm... I wonder how Clone Syaoran is carrying all those feathers for Sakura... And when he will give them back t her... Any suggestions? ^^
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Hmm... I wonder how Clone Syaoran is carrying all those feathers for Sakura... And when he will give them back t her... Any suggestions? ^^
Probably in that cloak of his that magically appeared O.o
When?
I hope soon.
I miss Clone Syaoran....
With the more interaction between Fay and Sakura, it just sort of reminds me of CCS. They had talked about how people with magic are attracted (postively or negatively--like CCS!Syaoran ^^;;) to other's with magical powers. The way they interact and how they get along just reminds me of this. Also reminds me of the fact that CLAMP likes to drive their fans crazy. >.>
The new chapter should be coming out in a few hours but Show content
before I was thinking about how Sakura's wish might be wanting to go where Syaoran-kun is.
Then I started thinking what if she had gone with him.
Do you think she would have still loved him if she had seen all that he was doing?
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Probably in that cloak of his that magically appeared O.o
When?
I hope soon.
I miss Clone Syaoran....
With the more interaction between Fay and Sakura, it just sort of reminds me of CCS. They had talked about how people with magic are attracted (postively or negatively--like CCS!Syaoran ^^;;) to other's with magical powers. The way they interact and how they get along just reminds me of this. Also reminds me of the fact that CLAMP likes to drive their fans crazy. >.>
The new chapter should be coming out in a few hours but Show content
before I was thinking about how Sakura's wish might be wanting to go where Syaoran-kun is.
Then I started thinking what if she had gone with him.
Do you think she would have still loved him if she had seen all that he was doing?
Hmm and maybe Sakura and Fai relationship is like the one between her and Yukito (from Yukito's, or even Yue's point of view...)
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I'm sure she would do everything to stop him. And who knows if Syaoran would let her be awake...
Eh... I won't read tne new chapter today - that's so mean >.<
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well I too think that the real syo wanted to kill him too!!
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Hmm and maybe Sakura and Fai relationship is like the one between her and Yukito (from Yukito's, or even Yue's point of view...)
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I'm sure she would do everything to stop him. And who knows if Syaoran would let her be awake...
Eh... I won't read tne new chapter today - that's so mean >.<
hahahaa xD! maybe CLAMP try to know us in a indirect form the relationship between sakura & fai and maybe Syao its gettin new powers @w@ omg all its confusing xD
CLAMP
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Cure a bit of insanity here if you could.
Why is it that people think this is R!Syaoran? Show content
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/01.jpg) (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/01.jpg)
What am I not seeing....?
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From what I've read of the sunday spoilers before the chaptire, they had heard that the splash was going to be R!Syaoran on the splash, but that could just be opinion of the poster.
I don't really think that can be C!Syaoran, personally, as CLAMP hasn't really drawn him in a servant/knight position since the Tokyo Arc.
And Chaptire 144? I say YAY for R!Syaoran. And again, yay. You're being treated like a living being. <3
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...as CLAMP hasn't really drawn him in a servant/knight position since the Tokyo Arc.
You mean lying in a pile of shattered glass isn't knightly.....? xP
But it just confuses me because R!Syaoran's eyes are drawn distinct from Syaoran's, like longer bottom line and all. The dress for this world's covers has kept R! in pretty much the same style of clothing, ruffles on sleves and on that neck thing. Also, Syaoran's turn to the dark side has made him prone to dressing in FWR signiture capes like in the splash. Even with the newest splash the face seems more comparable.
Though the biggest factor, of course, has to be facing away :p
But alas, no smile in turn for Sakura's. The only smile we saw was thanks to Kuro and Mokona antics. Hehehe. Drunk fun~
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Cure a bit of insanity here if you could.
Why is it that people think this is R!Syaoran? Show content
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/01.jpg) (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/01.jpg)
What am I not seeing....?
OMG, you're right.. O_O I didn't notice that. I really thought that it's R!Syaoran.. Now that you mentioned it, I notice that his clothes there resemble what he's wearing in chap 144's splash.
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5207/01jm9.th.png) (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01jm9.png)
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it's the eyes.. observe the eyes :keke: i also love ur banner, ying hua, it's lovely! the last splash page is absolutely gorgeous :D C!Syao looks more...sexy. too bad for R!Syao...he was drawn like a child..or something like that. :)
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Now that there are two Sakuras, you think both Syaorans will get a happy ending?
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.. There aren't exactly two Sakuras, it's more like her mind and body has been separated. >.< The mind and body could become one again, probably.
Though it would be nice if there were a Sakura for each Syaoran. XD
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For that to happen, one of them would wind up with a corpse, or a body without a soul. Which... would be kind of problematic.
There's still only one Sakura. Her soul just got seperated from her body (Again. Just not as feathers, this time). One Syaoran's going to wind up Princess...less. Sad.
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I'm still pretty hopeful for a happy ending. *shrugs* But that's just me being optimistic. Despite the lovely angst, I still think things might turn out for the best... Let's hope that CLAMP has the right idea for a happy ending.
I still feel like R!Syaoran is a little odd... why does he call Sakura "Sakura" in Hiiragana? Even for C!Syaoran, he dared not call her in that way until he felt really sure and comfortable with it because to her Sakura's royal status plays a role, but R!Syaoran seems to call her that a lot. Two possibilities come to mind. One, he really, truly loves Sakura her being a princess doesn't matter to him. Two, which is what I really think at the moment, is that R!Syaoran knows another Sakura that isn't of royal status and thus finds it hard to call her "Princess Sakura". Just a thought...
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yeah yeah
why Real syaoran didn't call sakura "sakura-hime"??
i hope the Clone syaoran wake up from his berserk
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Ok. And....my comment was just deleted because I don't have permission to....spoilers...? x_X
what does that mean...?
Cherry-tiger: Does R!Syaoran not use any suffix when speaking to people? I can't read Japanese so I can't tell for myself....
Cause, isn't that the way CCS!Syaoran spoke?
Spoilers....
With the recent chaters.....though I never thought R!Syaoran considered Sakura his most precious person...I felt like the whole stabbing scene was proof of this. Yes, R!Syaoran cares for Sakura, but not in the way Syaoran-kun loves her.
If it had been Syaoran-kun there when it happened--
His expressions were heartbreaking enough in the first chapter and that was without her bloody body disappearing after being stabbed by their good friend.....Hmm. I wonder how our Syaoran would have looked to Fay after that...? R!Syaoran looked like he was dissappointed in Fay, but that he was almost expecting something from him like that.
It was obviously hitsuzen that R!Syaoran was there so that Syaoran-kun didn't have to witness such a thing :p R!Syaoran is such a good protector to Syaoran-kun~!
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Hmmm, just thinking... Didn't Yuuko say that in her world were the two that would arrive laterat her shop although from a different world? Also, didn't she say that the ones from her world are the ones related to Clow Reed? I mean "the" Clow Reed. Also, didn't Fei Wang say about 5 or six times how he has the Syaoran that is a blood relative to Clow Reed? And then there is that sword that he keeps on summoning... and the seal in C!Syaoran's eye that looked awfully a lot like the compass Syaoran used in CCS to find the Clow Cards? As well as the age that Syaoran had in the flash backs to when he was sealed... he was pretty much the age he was in CCS. So... just shooting in the dark here but... i guess you understand where i'm coming from... Could this new "real" Syaoran be "the" "real" Syaoran? Just wonderin'...
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Even though half of what you said was kinda like gibberish, CLAMP said at the very start of TRC that the characters would all be different versions of their originals. I'd quote it exactly, but the site I had it bookmarked at no longer exists.
It's only natural the "original" Syaoran would have some of the similar belongings/powers as his original, as they do share the same soul. It only makes sense that his sword, which is an important possesion of his, would transcend dimensions, almost like a part of his soul. And for R!Syaoran to be tube Syaoran, he would have had to have been sealed after the final volume of CCS, when he was 13. He would then have been sealed for 7 years, making him 20, after the seal was shattered. TRC!Syaoran is under no circumstances that old. =)
Mystery solved. TRC!Syaoran =/= CCS!Syaoran.
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^ *AGREES* And he looked ten when he was in the tube, not thirteen. Shaoran's drawn to look around 15/16 years old, there's too much of a difference between the little Shaorans and the older ones.
Plus, Real!Shaoran's sword can cut, and CCS!Shaoran's can't, it's said so in the first artbook as a comment to the cover of chapter 4 of volume 2 =D That he can carry that sword without a license cause it doesn't cut.
It'd be really lame for R!Shao to be the CCS, anyway- the only chara that seems to be the same as the original, is the Clow Reed that Yuuko knew, but that at least is cool and makes sense- how many cryptic, future-seeing, weirdo, mascot-making magicians can you have, really?
And if CCS!Shaoran had been kidnapped, do you think Sakura wouldn't have minded? She's even more powerful than Clow, she wouldn't just stand around and let FWR steal her boyfriend away.
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lol i was gonna post in this but am confused now cos i am up to the end of series 2 anime and can't wait for third. I have not been buying the manga so much recently so it must be quite far ahead now... must save up and catch up. lol
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regarding the fact that the RSyaoran calls the princess, "sakura" may mean something like he has a history with a sakura before or what... makes you wonder, right? I think there's more to the story than just being kidnapped and trapped for years...
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lol i was gonna post in this but am confused now cos i am up to the end of series 2 anime and can't wait for third. I have not been buying the manga so much recently so it must be quite far ahead now... must save up and catch up. lol
Hah, this forum's full of people who follow the japanese manga, which went in a completely different (and rather dark) direction than the anime. Plus, the third season appears to have been cancelled, so there's not much that we talk about there. =/
As for what G_chan said, it's very likely he did have a Sakura in the universe he was originally from. This however, does not mean it was CCS!Sakura. It's the same as his sword -- since Sakura and Syaoran were together in the CCS-verse, one would expect them to be together in other universes. It was like that in Clow; why would it be different in other universes? I'm aware there's more to his story, but everything about the idea of crossovers in this story says that his story is not CCS!Syaoran's.
Also, the reason for this intimacy in calling her "Sakura" could likely stem from the fact that R!Syaoran saw everything Syaoran did as a child in Clow, and feels the same sense of intimacy Syaoran does for her. He's just not used to calling her "Princess", because he hasn't done any of the speaking.
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Since the RSyaoran was able to see everything through the eyes of the clone, I have to agree that it might be the reason of the intimacy in words... I can't help but wonder, what if there was something more? He did want to protect Sakura in the first place even when he was trapped... anyway, i guess it might be nothing.. :-\
And about the CCS Syaoran being the RSyaoran, it will be very unlikely.. it'll be tacky if it was him... -_-
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Haha, I mixed up your post with the n00b's a ways up the page. *cough*
What do you think is his history then, is with Sakura, or what? You're being vague. =P
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To be honest, I don't have any idea yet of his history... anyway, there aren't much clues about his past.. he was just kidnapped and locked away... It just made me wonder.. :sweatdrop:
I guess I have no choice but to read on.. :haha:
this sucks... the tensions killing me... -_-
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Hah, this forum's full of people who follow the japanese manga, which went in a completely different (and rather dark) direction than the anime. Plus, the third season appears to have been cancelled, so there's not much that we talk about there. =/
yeah i started reading the manga and got 7 books of it... will have to restart and buy the rest now. Had no idea series three was cancelled :(
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regarding the fact that the RSyaoran calls the princess, "sakura" may mean something like he has a history with a sakura before or what... makes you wonder, right? I think there's more to the story than just being kidnapped and trapped for years...
If R!Syaoran does, in fact, have his own Sakura from whatever the world was that he came from then it makes you wonder.. who is the Syaoran that TRC Sakura is meant to end up with? It wouldn't be the clone as he did not originally come from Clow country.
Then again, I wonder.. has CLAMP ever stated anywhere in TRC that soulmates (for example Syaoran and Sakura) can only end up with each other if they originate from the same world?
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If R!Syaoran does, in fact, have his own Sakura from whatever the world was that he came from then it makes you wonder.. who is the Syaoran that TRC Sakura is meant to end up with? It wouldn't be the clone as he did not originally come from Clow country.
Nowhere has it been said that Sakura can't end up with someone who wasn't originally from her world. She did spend much of her childhood with C!Syaoran afterall, which can't just be cast aside even though we've discovered he wasn't originally from that world. It's like saying Syaoran Li couldn't be with Sakura in CCS because he was from Hong Kong. =\ We don't even know if there is a Syaoran who was born in the country of Clow; it could've been hitsuzen that C!Syaoran was to become Syaoran of Clow, even though he did not originate there.
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Consequently, if KuroxFay do end in canon the whole idea of "in world soul mates" is kind of out the window anyways...
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Nowhere has it been said that Sakura can't end up with someone who wasn't originally from her world.
Ah, ok, yeah, I dunno where I got the idea that soulmates had to be from the same world... Maybe from the anime or something *shudders* I just swear I heard it somewhere o.O
Oh and as for the CCS Sakura and Syaoran thing.. It is not really the same because they do come from the same world.. they just come from different parts of the same world - Japan and Hong Kong. Otherwise Syaoran would have needed to cross dimensions in order to get to Sakura and the clow cards.
Consequently, if KuroxFay do end in canon the whole idea of "in world soul mates" is kind of out the window anyways...
Oh yeah, good point, I never thought about KuroFai! They are pretty close to canon, I'd say.
Damn CLAMP, I really wanna know about Syaoran's past right now! What world he came from, exactly why he got locked up, his relationship with Watanuki.. everything! As much as I love Fai, I really want to know about Syaoran ^^
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Damn CLAMP, I really wanna know about Syaoran's past right now! What world he came from, exactly why he got locked up, his relationship with Watanuki.. everything! As much as I love Fai, I really want to know about Syaoran ^^
I second that! Or at least get him off the ground >.> Poor kid.
But! I'm excited about the drama that's coming out in like a month! Maybe R!Syaoran/Syaoran's twin will actually get a name!! =D Plus, it's probably the only SxS love we're gonna see anytime soon.... Mou, I want the twin to get a girlfriend too~!
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The sad thing is that after this next chapter (which has absolutely no Syaoran!) we have a three week break ;_; And then even after that we will probably still get more Fai/Kuro/Ashura.... oh, unless! ...Unless something unexpected happens like Clone Syaoran turning up to stick some feathers in Sakura's body
and it will finally be safe to say that R!Syaoran is the uke because he's lying the ground (yay Syaorancest!) xD *shot*
Yes! Syaoran's twin on the drama CD! I hope we hear a lot about him! I wonder whether he is actually R!Syaoran or CLAMP are just teasing us... They probably wouldn't have spoilers on the drama CD would they?
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About lovers from different worlds... There is obviously nothing stopping you from befriending people from different dimensions, so why would there be a difference when it comes to romance? If anything, seeing as CLAMP value "true love" so highly, the love between the characters would probably conquer any such rule. Not that I support reciprocated R!Syaoran/Sakura, but still.
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Syaorancest >D Lol. I love how most of us SxS fans support it~ :3
Yea, I checked spoilers. No Syaoran ;_; The fake spoiler said there was supposed to be a cover of a naked Sakura with both Syaorans though....lol. Instead it's of Kyle >.>
...I dunno. Maybe...something will be revealed in the chapter before the Drama? Or maybe in xxxHolic?
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@ Ando..
Yeah, that's true. As I say I think I must have read the whole "soul mates have to come from the same world" thing from some false source.. Or I just got the idea in my head for some reason.. I actually can't find it written in the manga so, sorry, my mistake ^^
Not that I support reciprocated R!Syaoran/Sakura
I'd say each Syaoran has about a 50/50 chance right now of ending up with Sakura. I know a lot of people still think that the clone will go back to how he was and have a happy ending with Sakura. I myself don't think this is likely to happen so easily - the "our Syaoran" that everyone loves is simply a cloned body with half of R!Syaoran's heart. Sounds kinda harsh but it's true. And I don't see how "our Syaoran" can come back since Syaoran has stated that his heart can never go back to the clone.
Personally (although this is completely my opinion), I believe that R!Syaoran and Sakura should end up together (I say "should" not "will") mainly for the reason that the person Sakura has technically been with all this time (through her childhood and on the journey for feathers) is R!Syaoran since it was his heart inside the clone's body (the clone didn't even have a heart until Syaoran interfered). Therefore it was his heart she fell in love with. The only way that this would not be the case would be if the clone had actually grown a heart of his own and that's the heart Sakura loves. However, I don't believe he does have his own heart right now considering the last we saw of him he was holding a feather in the middle of some random world he'd completely obliterated. And in Acid Tokyo we saw him forcefully put the feather into Sakura's body even whilst she pleaded for him to stop and then he just continued onto the next world.
Having said that I'm definately not throwing the opportunity of Sakura ending up with the clone out of the window. In fact, I think they have a slightly greater likelihood of ending up together than R!Syaoran and Sakura but yeah, it's about 50/50. But this is CLAMP we're talking about so nothing can be decided with absolute certainty until they tell us.
Ah sorry that came out longer than expected :sweatdrop:
@ Mari..
Yeah I read about those fake spoilers! It's kind of dissapointing they're not true! haha. As for xxxholic, according to some spoilers I saw the next chapter is apparently just about (notreallythatmuchofaspoiler->)Watanuki and Doumeki going fishing o.O Oh and something about birds attacking everyone? So no Syaoran unfortunately :( Unless those spoilers are fake as well *hopeful*
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The thing that I find going against that whole Syaoran-kun's heart actually being R!Syaoran's is that Fay risked a bunch to save "that heart". If he knew all that was going on then he could have very well made out that it didn't matter which body the heart went to. Instead he used magic and tried to save that heart for Syaoran-kun because he said "that heart belongs to you" it was something he made precious with Sakura and all his loved ones. Also Kurogane was telling R!Syao that although he's like Syaoran-kun the two are different....ermmm, but maybe that was more towards the fact he was taking the bad things Syaoran-kun did on himself....but then there was the line about seeing the Princess through only his eyes, not Syaoran-kun's....so yes.
CLAMP is evil and I swear sometimes it's like they just throw stuff together that doesn't make sense but since they wrote it we think it must make sense and so we make it out to be when really what we're thinking wasn't what was supposed to be thought of at all.....[/end nonsense run-on]
>>>I know! I wanted those to be true too xDD
At least the WataxDoumeki fans get some love after so much neglect
Wish I could say the same from the SxS view >.>
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@ Ando..
Yeah, that's true. As I say I think I must have read the whole "soul mates have to come from the same world" thing from some false source.. Or I just got the idea in my head for some reason.. I actually can't find it written in the manga so, sorry, my mistake ^^
Oh, I wasn't trying to tell you off, just adding my two cents on CLAMPverse Rules of Love, so no need to apologise. Sorry if I sounded aggressive. I think the 'same world' argument has been used by countless of people as a way of denying any possible romantic relationship between our favourite magician and ninja since long before R!Syaoran came into the picture, so there's probably no telling from where the thought originated.
I agree with you that in the moment, it looks like the Syaorans have a fifty-fifty situation when it comes to Sakura, and I, too, am all for a bittersweet not all-in-all happy ending (gosh, I'm still trying to make up my mind on whether I want Fai and Kurogane to come and live in Clow country or if I want the little family never to be able to meet again after the journey is over), but I personally think that such an ending would be best achieved if Sakura ended up with the clone.
Let's assume that clone boy is destroyed and that in time, Sakura does accept R!Syaoran as being the person she fell in love with, and they go back to Clow country. Such an ending would only be possible if Sakura truly, with all her heart recognised R!Syaoran as her love and only thought of clonie as a machine. It's possible that she will, but wouldn't that result in a perfectly happy ending similar to if Our!Syaoran had never gone psycho on everyone and instead had stuck with Sakura all along?
I personally much prefer the scenario of C!Syaoran somehow regaining his heart (although Yuuko claims it's unmendable, she doesn't lift a finger - and nor does anybody else - to stop her when Sakura says she wants to retrieve it. I'm positive it's possible, but it probably comes at a great price), R!Syaoran suffering the martyr death to save Sakura - the dysfunctional little family return to Clow country; one with fractured memories, one one-eyed, one with mismatched irises and all remembering and grieving R!Syaoran for the rest of their lives. That, I think, also fits best with TRC's message of change.
But maybe it's not a bittersweet ending you want, but that it is Real Syaoran and no other that ends up with Sakura?
(do I dare posting this? I'm tired so this post is probably full of typos. Allow me to apologise beforehand for those)
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@ Mari
The thing that I find going against that whole Syaoran-kun's heart actually being R!Syaoran's is that Fay risked a bunch to save "that heart". If he knew all that was going on then he could have very well made out that it didn't matter which body the heart went to.
I saw this as Fai simply not wanting Sakura to get hurt because, obviously, she would be... and he was trying to prevent a "family breakup" I guess xD ..but.. um, failed.
I wonder, perhaps FWR asked Fai to do what he could to prevent the heart from going back to R!Syaoran.. I mean, he didn't seem very happy when Xing Huo (is that her name?) helped R!Syaoran out. And it would explain the whole "was he too late?" thing that I seem to remember FWR saying. "He" being Fai. Mind you, my memory on all of this now is quite bad.
CLAMP is evil and I swear sometimes it's like they just throw stuff together that doesn't make sense but since they wrote it we think it must make sense and so we make it out to be when really what we're thinking wasn't what was supposed to be thought of at all.....[/end nonsense run-on]
*confused* lol
And yeah, I'm not complaining about the DouWata-ness ^__^ Just didn't really expect that to happen. I was thinking there'd be more Sakura and Watanuki talking, and more Syaoran.. I will wait and try to be patient.. *taps fingers*
@ Ando..
Don't worry, I didn't think you sounded aggressive, and it's okay, your post makes perfect sense :)
R!Syaoran suffering the martyr death to save Sakura
Yeah thats the thing that worries me about R!Syaoran.. he seems like the kind of character to just give up everything and suffer in silence for Sakura (if he does love her or at least care for her enough - personally I do think he has feelings for her based on reasons I stated in another thread: "Who will Sakura's number one be in the end") It sort of reminds me of how in CCS because of Sakura's rejection from Yukito he was going to sacrifice his own chance of happiness with her by not telling her he loved her. Basically, I've loved Syaoran since CCS - he's my favourite anime/manga character ever so I really want him to have a happy ending.
Something that worries me about a Clone/Sakura ending would be if something really cliched happens like Sakura's love for him being so strong that it causes him to return to his old self - please, no!! But I have faith CLAMP won't do that.. If she does end up with him I want it to be good enough to convince me that they are meant to be together. But I will definately cry if this leaves R!Syaoran unhappy and he dies or something ;_; Poor guy, I can actually see this happening! I'd be alright if he died happy, but him sacrificing himself is definately not him being happy IMO.
It really depends who the Syaoran is in the tube - whoever it is will be the one Sakura loves and who loves her. But the thing is, the Syaoran in the tube from chapter one is wearing the clow country clothes and at the moment neither the Clone nor R!Syaoran are wearing these. In fact, doesn't Yuuko still have them?
I personally much prefer the scenario of C!Syaoran somehow regaining his heart (although Yuuko claims it's unmendable, she doesn't lift a finger - and nor does anybody else - to stop her when Sakura says she wants to retrieve it. I'm positive it's possible, but it probably comes at a great price)
What I think about Yuuko not lifting a finger to help Sakura is basically that - okay, I've only read up to volume 3 of xxxholic (plus some recent chapters) - but, with all her customers she seems to just warn them and then let them do what they want after that.. let "hitsuzen" happen. This may be the case with Sakura too. Whatever Yuuko says is always right so I think that Yuuko saying the clone can't get his heart back = fact!! Still, it doesn't necessarily mean the clone is doomed. There might be another way.. Just I/we (the readers) don't know it yet :/
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Just by saying "that heart belongs to you" is showing that he's thinking only of Syaoran-kun. Every word in chapter 119 and 120 goes against the whole only for Sakura thing. If he only did it for her then he wouldn't need to stand up to Kamui and say that Syaoran-kun was really a good kid. Or that a fake heart can become a real heart. He would simply try to shove the heart back in the clone, gift wrap him, and present him to Sakura xDD
Regardless, either idea supports the fact that the heart is not the same :/ Again, if it was, Fay would know Sakura would be happy with either body....it sounds morbid....lol.
I'm thinking FWR would not be too happy with the heart staying in his clone, since that was the thing R!Syaoran did that pissed him off in the first place xDD In fact, trying to prevent it is almost going against what Fay's supposed to do for his wish.
Ermmm....I don't think that sentence of mine was made to make sense >.>
On a different note about you mentioning the tube scene and the clothes from Clow...if it really is only supposed to be souls that are allowed there then maybe the "soul" of the Syaoran in there takes that form. The true Syaoran for Sakura.
And PS. It's obvious that R!Syaoran's love for him is going to be so strong it will turn him back xDD
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*just re-read chapters 119-120*
I think Fai is wrong though. I mean, he says "even if it does belong to someone else, even if it is fake, to the person that recieves it that heart is the real thing" but really, what does it matter if the heart resides in the clone or in R!Syaoran's body? Either way the body is the same, and the only thing that is different is that R!Syaoran now has the whole full heart whilst the clone only had half. If Sakura is still pinning her hopes on returning the heart to the clone then I don't see why. What difference does it make whose body it is in? The heart she fell in love with is right in front of her (just in a different body.. that looks exactly the same anyway). The only thing is that she says they are different (which is true because R!Syaoran has the full heart so he would be) - but, based on that scene where she angsts on the bed to Fai IMO I think she is confused that she is having feelings for someone who looks like the one she fell in love with but isn't. She probably feels guilty - like, she shouldn't be having feelings for a "replacement". I just think that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for her to be in love with "half a person" which is what the clone is, really.
And the whole thing about "that heart belongs to you. With Sakura-chan and your loved ones you have made it a precious thing".. Well, how could he have done, really? The "you" Fai is refferring to is a body.. a shell.. since the heart was never the clone's.. if you get me.. The clone's true self is a body without a heart. What I mean is that I don't see how a body could make a heart precious since it's just a body.. unless he had in fact grown a heart of his own.. only then. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. I'm actually confusing myself! It makes sense in my head anyway ^^
'm thinking FWR would not be too happy with the heart staying in his clone, since that was the thing R!Syaoran did that pissed him off in the first place xDD In fact, trying to prevent it is almost going against what Fay's supposed to do for his wish.
I'm not sure if FWR was annoyed that R!Syaoran interfered. He certainly looked surprised, but not so much annoyed. He said: "even though the heart of another resided in him, if the determination to gather feathers remained that was all that mattered". I've actually changed my mind - I don't think FWR asked Fai to prevent the heart from going back to R!Syaoran. I don't think it caused a hindrance to his plan either way so it doesn't bother him whether the clone has a heart or not. Although it probably took a hell of a lot longer for Syaoran to collect the feathers with a heart inside him than it would have done without. Since now that he's heartless, he's all: "Destroy obstructions.. Collect feather.. Next world.."
On a different note about you mentioning the tube scene and the clothes from Clow...if it really is only supposed to be souls that are allowed there then maybe the "soul" of the Syaoran in there takes that form. The true Syaoran for Sakura.
Yeah I thought about that too. But then why isn't Sakura wearing her princess' outfit in the hourglass tube? Why is she wearing that dress instead? There must be a reason.
And PS. It's obvious that R!Syaoran's love for him is going to be so strong it will turn him back xDD
Haha now THAT would be the best ending ever!
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And the whole thing about "that heart belongs to you. With Sakura-chan and your loved ones you have made it a precious thing".. Well, how could he have done, really?
Still, you have to remember that this is CLAMP we're dealing with, and that they seem to believe fully in the power of true love. That wouldn't be the first thought-to-be impossible thing that one of their characters have managed to do thanks to their strong feelings for someone else.
The "you" Fai is refferring to is a body.. a shell.. since the heart was never the clone's.. if you get me.. The clone's true self is a body without a heart. What I mean is that I don't see how a body could make a heart precious since it's just a body.. unless he had in fact grown a heart of his own.. only then.
That's another thing about CLAMP that you start to notice after reading some of their others works: they are very firm about that even if a character isn't a "real" person (for example, if they are a machine or created through magic), that still doesn't make them any less real. That was, among other, a running theme in Chobits, and many of the characters that appear in TRC shouldn't logically be able to exist in other dimensions since they, in their original manga, were created by someone else and thought of as having no soul/feelings.
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(just in a different body..
Body is not the same~ We saw all through the series that Sakura’s body is naturally inclined towards Syaoran-kun’s without her heart. Why else would she reach out for him when she was asleep in Piffle? Touch him intimately when she didn’t know him in Koriyo, Lake country, barely knew him then in Jade, Outo, etc--; while never doing the same to any of her other group? Yet with R!Syaoran’s she shares nothing and always pushes back. I think the body could start to develop a heart because back in Volume 9 Mokona said how everyone has both body memories and heart memories (not to be confused with Sakura‘s ability to store world memories..). So why wouldn’t clonie have them too? Right now his body is just like Sakura’s was at the beginning of the series, ne? Which might be why he held her in such an intimate way back in Tokyo. He could have just thrown the feather at her but he made a whole eye!sex scene out of it…….
And although R! was watching his body wasn’t there so Sakura’s body doesn’t relate to him like it does to Syaoran-kun’s. He only has mind/heart memories with her. R! could never have those body memories with her…
I don't think it caused a hindrance to his plan either way so it doesn't bother him whether the clone has a heart or not. Although it probably took a hell of a lot longer for Syaoran to collect the feathers with a heart inside him than it would have done without. Since now that he's heartless, he's all: "Destroy obstructions.. Collect feather.. Next world.."
Ummm….LoL. I think you just stated both sides of that argument xDD
<3
As for Sakura bed angst scene…I saw it differently. It was more like Sakura was trying to get into her head the idea that R!Syaoran was her most precious but although they looked the same and had the same steady gaze or whatever it was like something inside of her was going against that idea. And I think she’s feeling more guilty because she wants R!Syaoran TO be her Syaoran but he just can’t be. because he belongs to Watanuki xDD
This will sound insane but….*blushes*….if Syaoran was meant to only be one person, then why would they even play with the idea of putting a twin in the drama CD….?
As for dress maybe all souls should look like that….while Syaoran-kun couldn’t be all nice and flowy and white because he had to create a heart of his own. And I think it would be suiting because that was how he created himself to be…all covered in filth because his soul’s all dirty from killing and being psychotic. I always found it highly symbolic that Sakura was clean and white while Syaoran was “of earth” (his outfit actually being from his life on earth) with torn up clothes and dirty flesh….both literally and psychically. Like the poem “love bade me welcome, but my soul drew back guilty of dust and sin” Sorry. *nerd* :P
Fact is nothing is set. Everything is based on interpretation. And seeing as I can only relate my ideas through translations that could never properly sub for what I would read if I was Japanese then my ideas are far from concrete. Plus as Ando says….it’s CLAMP <3 If we're going into possible vs non-possible then we should start discussing how you program a lifeless body to only collect feathers O.o;
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That's another thing about CLAMP that you start to notice after reading some of their others works: they are very firm about that even if a character isn't a "real" person (for example, if they are a machine or created through magic), that still doesn't make them any less real.
Oh I didn't mean that he didn't deserve her because he wasn't "real" or anything like that. As long as he grows his own heart I guess I'm alright with the whole Clone and Sakura thing (even though I don't really like them as a pairing as of yet), however, I think it would be unfair for him to get back R!Syaoran's heart when it never belonged to him in the first place... And it would make me one very unhappy fangirl.
That was, among other, a running theme in Chobits, and many of the characters that appear in TRC shouldn't logically be able to exist in other dimensions since they, in their original manga, were created by someone else and thought of as having no soul/feelings.
In the case of Chii though, wasn't she created by Fai in Celes? So that makes sense - even in a different dimension she was still a created thing.
We saw all through the series that Sakura’s body is naturally inclined towards Syaoran-kun’s without her heart.
Sakura never actually lost her heart, she just lost her memories.
Why else would she reach out for him when she was asleep in Piffle?
Uhh I can't remember.. When was that?
I think the body could start to develop a heart because back in Volume 9 Mokona said how everyone has both body memories and heart memories (not to be confused with Sakura‘s ability to store world memories..). So why wouldn’t clonie have them too?
He could start to develop a heart but there is no evidence of this as of yet.
Right now his body is just like Sakura’s was at the beginning of the series, ne?
Sort of. But not really. Like I say, at the beginning of the series Sakura lost her memories, whereas Cloney lost his heart. But then again he didn't really lose it since it was never really his.
he made a whole eye!sex scene out of it…….
Really?? I thought that whole scene was just supposed to prove that even having a pleading Sakura at his feet didn't make a difference to him. Proof that he is now a heart-less being with no other objective than to collect feathers.
Ummm….LoL. I think you just stated both sides of that argument xDD
<3.
Lol yeah :/ You do wonder though how FWR can sit in front of that TV-set thing watching the group 24/7. Doesn't he ever sleep? Why doesn't he have square-eyes by now? xD Actually, come to think of it, didn't his mother ever teach him not to meddle in other people's lives for his own selfish gain?
As for Sakura bed angst scene…I saw it differently. It was more like Sakura was trying to get into her head the idea that R!Syaoran was her most precious but although they looked the same and had the same steady gaze or whatever it was like something inside of her was going against that idea. And I think she’s feeling more guilty because she wants R!Syaoran TO be her Syaoran but he just can’t be.
Uhh well this is what I think about it...
Sakura says: "I know that even if he's the original he's like the ones we met in the other worlds - the same face but different persons. Still.. it's no good.." = I think by this she means basically that: It's no good, I still have feelings for the real Syaoran no matter how much I try not to.
Because why else would she say "Still.. it's no good" in that context?
Also she says: "Each time I come across him. It's hopeless. Why? The one right in front of me isn't Syaoran-kun is he?" = She is asking herself "why" she is falling for R!Syaoran and she is frightened of this because she believes she fell in love with Cloney.
But, yeah, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this ^^
This will sound insane but….*blushes*….if Syaoran was meant to only be one person, then why would they even play with the idea of putting a twin in the drama CD….?
Because CLAMP are evil and take pleasure out of teasing their fans -_-
As for dress maybe all souls should look like that….while Syaoran-kun couldn’t be all nice and flowy and white because he had to create a heart of his own. And I think it would be suiting because that was how he created himself to be…all covered in filth because his soul’s all dirty from killing and being psychotic. I always found it highly symbolic that Sakura was clean and white while Syaoran was “of earth” (his outfit actually being from his life on earth) with torn up clothes and dirty flesh….both literally and psychically.
Very interesting theory but I don't know if it's likely to be as symbolic as that. I mean, at first I theorized that the whole tube was supposed to be symbolic.. but I was wrong.
If we're going into possible vs non-possible then we should start discussing how you program a lifeless body to only collect feathers O.o;
True, why I am trying to make logical sense out of something that has been labelled as being of the fantasy genre? :sweatdrop:
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*pokes* Are we reading the same series? In TRC it has been stated that memories ARE the heart >.> That’s why Sakura would have died if Fay hadn’t (done as he was supposed to, shame-shame) and given her that feather. Remember, we’re in the CLAMP-verse. Things don’t necessarily make sense xD That’s why the heart and the soul are different…bodies have memories…people can eat eyes and somehow make them appear as their own.
Uhh I can't remember.. When was that?
Tsk, tsk. You dare ask on the SxS thread when that moment was?! I shall have to poke you again *pokes* Back in chapter 75 (-ish xD) It happened after they were drinking? And Syaoran-kun and the others put her to bed and then she reached out for him and he held her hand and then the next day she said she had a very happy dream about someone holding her hand. Which goes back to her body knowing Syaoran-kun and the hand holding back in Hanshin. Even if her body is asleep it’s still feeling and gaining memories and retaining them and reacting on them…
He could start to develop a heart but there is no evidence of this as of yet.
LOL! Ouch. I’ve never seen anyone so against poor Syaoran-kun having his own heart xD
I think it’s a stand in itself that C!Syao and R!Syao were both able to get into Syaoran-kun’s dreams. If he wasn’t developing his own self then C!Syao wouldn’t have been harassing him back in Toyko. And R!Syao wouldn’t have been appearing before him as a child…
R!Syaoran is even against it :p He said himself that Sakura being most precious comes from Syaoran-kun’s HEART, not his own.
Really?? I thought that whole scene was just supposed to prove that even having a pleading Sakura at his feet didn't make a difference to him. Proof that he is now a heart-less being with no other objective than to collect feathers.
If so, he could have just slammed her to the ground like he did with everyone else. There’s no reason for a “heartless” being to be holding her and putting his cheek to hers. If he was trying to stick it in that he was all pychotic-happy then it would have been worse to completely ignore her. Wee~ we see things so differently :3
Lol yeah :/ You do wonder though how FWR can sit in front of that TV-set thing watching the group 24/7?
…because the p0rn store banned him from excessive over due fines….? xDD
But, yeah, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this ^^
Yea. For that scene we can honestly make nothing of it. Because that translation is different from the one I used, and I’ve read two others aside from this all which have her saying completely different words which just happen to contradict the other translations. So *lol* discussing that scene is a little pointless unless the two of us go off and learn Japanese together xD
But! The fact remains they’re both in the Drama! ^___^
Lmao. I know, I know about the tube. I just thought it would be so cool <3
Hmmm, you're someone who thought it wasn't going to happen from the start....
Chances are more likely that if he’s on the other side it has something to do with FWR’s mirror….
Ah, but it’s so much fun discussing the lives and ways of fictional characters brought up in a world with no rules until CLAMP makes or goes against them =3
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*pokes*
Ow!
Are we reading the same series? In TRC it has been stated that memories ARE the heart >.>
Where does it say that? I checked the first chapter on msn groups and it definately says "memories" and nothing about a heart. Although like you said maybe the translations are different. I'm not sure exactly how reliable that translation was.. If only I had the tankoubons *shakes fist*
Tsk, tsk. You dare ask on the SxS thread when that moment was?! I shall have to poke you again *pokes* Back in chapter 75 (-ish xD) It happened after they were drinking? And Syaoran-kun and the others put her to bed and then she reached out for him and he held her hand and then the next day she said she had a very happy dream about someone holding her hand. Which goes back to her body knowing Syaoran-kun and the hand holding back in Hanshin. Even if her body is asleep it’s still feeling and gaining memories and retaining them and reacting on them…
Oh right, I remember now.. Well that.. The body memories remember what the heart memories didn't right? But.. uh.. but.. oh, nevermind, I'm trying to make logical sense again.
LOL! Ouch. I’ve never seen anyone so against poor Syaoran-kun having his own heart xD
But psycho Cloney is sooo sexy! I like him how he is now!
R!Syaoran is even against it :p He said himself that Sakura being most precious comes from Syaoran-kun’s HEART, not his own.
I am SO glad you mentioned that! Haha, I made this little discovery a while back that I'm pretty proud of.. ;D
Where R!Syao tells C!Syao that: "the fact that you consider Sakura over there most important to you doesn't come from my heart. it's from you!" I think he is just lying here; testing the clone to see if he has grown his own heart (to decide whether or not he should destroy him). Notice how he clenches his fists just before he says it (lower left hand corner) and lookie! Even Kurogane noticed! Squee~:
http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter122.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2750
And then when he actually says it his face looks really emotional and pained:
http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter122.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2751
If so, he could have just slammed her to the ground like he did with everyone else.
He only seemed to do that when somebody got in the way. Kurogane tried stopping him, so he used Fai's magic against him. R!Syaoran tried stopping him, so he stuck a sword through his leg. Fai tried stopping him, so he--yeah.. Sakura didn't do that, she just lightly gripped onto his arm. Anyway, if Cloney had killed her then he would ruin his whole objective of bringing her feathers so he probably didn't hurt her for that reason.
(And besides, I thought it was pretty violent the way he slashed that bubble thing she was in - when I first read that I thought he'd killed her :surprised:)
There’s no reason for a “heartless” being to be holding her and putting his cheek to hers.
That bit was just fanservice xD
Wee~ we see things so differently :3
Yeah, I know! Actually I think the majority of the TRC fandom would disagree with my views lol but it's still really fun to discuss it.
Chances are more likely that if he’s on the other side it has something to do with FWR’s mirror….
I'm interested.. what makes you think that?
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But psycho Cloney is sooo sexy! I like him how he is now!
Hey. No one is denying that the blue eye is love xD
I think he is just lying here....
Ah , very crafty…using the manga for your evil purposes >D
But! But, but, but my dear! Even if he was using it as a fake out, that means he did believe that the clone DID have feelings! If it wasn’t true at all he wouldn’t even be able to try that because it would be inconsequential! :p
Assuming that his Sakura IS/WAS this Sakura (as in disregarding the whole “even if that heart never returns” thing…) I think he’s more pissed/fist clenching because he knew he gave up Sakura the moment he decided to protect her.
But really, you need to have more faith in the characters xP Fay was wrong, R!Syaoran's lying, Sakura in love with an imaginary person....
He only seemed to do that when somebody got in the way.
Just saying he could have totally ignored her instead of bringing her closer. But meh. Fanservice, subtext, substantial plot evidence, the closest Syaoran-kun will dare to kissing Sakura aside from fan fiction….we can think whatever we like until the end is known.
Well.
I did have this nice little theory, with pretty words and such…but then when I was looking back on a pic of the tube I also found this (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/Tube_morbid.png). So…I don’t see either side being a mirror anytime soon or ever >.>
LoL. There’s also the theory about FWR’s monocle being the glass that divides them xDD But that’s not mine and I wouldn’t even know how to validate that.
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But! But, but, but my dear! Even if he was using it as a fake out, that means he did believe that the clone DID have feelings! If it wasn’t true at all he wouldn’t even be able to try that because it would be inconsequential! :p
Maybe "lying" was the wrong word, I meant "testing" ;D My guess is that he said it just to SEE if the clone had feelings because he wasn't sure. He hoped that the clone could have grown his own heart (thats why he gave him his own heart in the first place) but when the clone responded to his statement with a kick, he realised that he didn't. In the chapter after he says the whole "the love for Sakura comes from you" thing, R!Syao says that he promised before that "if you continued to be only a created thing who acted wildly and forcefully, I would eliminate you" and he prepares to kill him as he says this (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter123.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2766) (that sword out of the hand thing is so cool! ^__^)
In fact, I think if Sakura had not screamed out "STOP! DON'T KILL SYAORAN-KUN" he would have killed Cloney since he had the upper hand at that point.
But really, you need to have more faith in the characters xP Fay was wrong, R!Syaoran's lying, Sakura in love with an imaginary person...
In love with an imaginary person? What? Lmao!
Just saying he could have totally ignored her instead of bringing her closer.
You're right. Still think it's fanservice though :lol:
the closest Syaoran-kun will dare to kissing Sakura aside from fan fiction
What about this beautiful coloured picture? (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k276/redeternity/cloneyandsakura.jpg)
Well.
I did have this nice little theory, with pretty words and such…but then when I was looking back on a pic of the tube I also found this (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/Tube_morbid.png). So…I don’t see either side being a mirror anytime soon or ever >.>
Oooh, I've never seen that pic before. Is it from the character guide? And I don't know why but I find the way Sakura and Syaoran are standing up in that tube kinda amusing.
Anyway, one thing I have noticed about the tube is that the two ends are slightly different.. I don't know if this is in any way significant to the plot or if it's just part of the design. And I'm kinda confused.. was your theory about the mirror supposed to be like, that Syaoran was not actually in the tube but reflected there by FWR or something?
LoL. There’s also the theory about FWR’s monocle being the glass that divides them xDD
Wow, I love it! xD
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In love with an imaginary person? What? Lmao!
Non-existent then, since you think Syaoran-kun was never his own person :p
Maybe "lying" was the wrong word, I meant "testing"
Still. To even have the idea to TEST that theory it would have to be on the knowledge that yes, at one point this shell (as you call it xP)--Syaoran-kun--DID have feelings separate from R!Syaoran. Or else how would he know to test that particular idea? Either way R!Syaoran is still supporting the fact that there was “something” separate from him in the clone’s body if he was testing it out. Really, you're more or less advocating the idea with the "test" that Syaoran-kun lost out to the clone for control of the body.
Which then leads to his must kill reaction could have very well been set off by the fact that the clone won the battle over Syaoran-kun (a separate entity) in who takes the body, if we’re playing that game. xD
And yup he would have defiantly killed C! off because as it turns out R!Syaoran wanted to kill C!Syaoran and then himself so they could be together in the afterlife
Yea. We’ll just go ahead and file that away into the not agreeing category. I mean, I understand what you‘re saying. And from the “logical” point of view it’s probably a nice and comfortable standing--IF you threw out the rest of the series and only aimed on when R!Syaoran appeared. Because really if you’re backing that then you toss all the evidence that he was forming a heart. Things like his stand of “I know who I am…I’m Syaoran” and the constant “warmth in his chest” from Sakura. Not only that but Clow put Sakura up to “melting his heart.” Even the dreams, again, show separate.
Why else would they go on about the strong heart, and the flame and junk? Because not only did he have that half heart on “loan” but he was developing his own self as well. Maybe--just maybe….think back to the dream in Tokyo. Remember when C!Syaoran said to Syaoran-kun “I’ve been waiting so long…” ? In the image it looks like he’s coming through a mirror of some sort. What if Syaoran-kun was imprisoned in his own body, while the clone controlled it? Much like Syaoran-kun was using it and the Clone had to stay dormant because of the seal?
LMAO. It’s funny because if you look at what we’re saying (especially my last thought *coughcough*) none of it makes sense…and the more we talk the less sense we make xDD Chances are nothing is anywhere truly near what we’re talking about but meh…
And I don't know why but I find the way Sakura and Syaoran are standing up in that tube kinda amusing.
Lol. Yea, them kind of standing in there and waving to us struck me as kind of morbid…actually >.> It was from an art book, can't remember which. They also had little sketches of Sakura’s and Syaoran’s rooms…which by the way I found it strange that they have telephones. Odd. I never even considered they did.
My theory...? Ummm....using the mirror to get to her...something about that and...because the fact he doesn't seem to be a soul in there...and Yuuko says only souls can....ummm. Yea. My evidence was gone with that picture so it's sort of pointless to relate concretely ^^;;
Wow, I love it! xD
…I can’t remember but something about him, like his body, being an actual world…or something…? xDD I think it was in the Tsubasa forums…
And yes :3 That phantom of the opera-esque picture is smex~
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Still. To even have the idea to TEST that theory it would have to be on the knowledge that yes, at one point this shell (as you call it xP)--Syaoran-kun--DID have feelings separate from R!Syaoran. Or else how would he know to test that particular idea?
Well, he came up with the theory that Syaoran could grow his own heart right from the start when the clone was created. When he gave him the heart he did it in the hope that he would grow his own. Thats where the idea came from. And why would he have to have the knowledge in the first place (that Cloney had grown his own heart) to test this idea? Because then what would be the point of testing it - he'd already know! xD
Lolz *brain dedz*
Having said that though.. There's still so much we don't know yet about R!Syaoran.. Who knows what his real reasons were for all the things he's said/done.
Which then leads to his must kill reaction could have very well been set off by the fact that the clone won the battle over Syaoran-kun (a separate entity) in who takes the body, if we’re playing that game. xD
Yes that is what I believe happened :/ I think.. unless I'm understanding you wrong..
Because really if you’re backing that then you toss all the evidence that he was forming a heart. Things like his stand of “I know who I am…I’m Syaoran” and the constant “warmth in his chest” from Sakura. Not only that but Clow put Sakura up to “melting his heart.”
But do all those things really prove that he was growing a heart? Couldn't it have been R!Syaoran's heart that was getting that "warmth" and R!Syaoran's heart that was "melting"? Remember how, in CCS, it took Syaoran a while to warm up to Sakura? But R!Syaoran seems warm from the start.. If it wasn't his heart that was getting that "warmth" and "melting" then why wasn't he rude to Sakura and putting her down and stuff like his CCS counterpart?
Why else would they go on about the strong heart, and the flame and junk?
Because it's R!Syaoran's heart. LOL. Sorry you're probably getting pissed off with me now xD
Remember when C!Syaoran said to Syaoran-kun “I’ve been waiting so long…” ? In the image it looks like he’s coming through a mirror of some sort. What if Syaoran-kun was imprisoned in his own body, while the clone controlled it? Much like Syaoran-kun was using it and the Clone had to stay dormant because of the seal?
Uhh I'm not exactly sure what your argument is here. But, I don't think "Syaoran-kun" or "Our!Syaoran" or whoever was imprisoned inside his own body whilst the Clone controlled it. It was more like Syaoran's true self coming through (a heartless being whose only objective is to collect feathers). The way I see it when the seal was breaking but not fully broken, Syaoran's true self was able to obtain some control over his body.. then it went back to "Our!Syaoran" again.. Then when the seal broke for good the half-heart came out of his body and went back to R!Syaoran.. and from then on "Our!Syaoran" was no longer existant.
Sorry if that wasn't what you were talking about at all and I misinterpreted you completely.
and the more we talk the less sense we make xDD
That is the truest thing that has been said throughout our whole discussion!
Chances are nothing is anywhere truly near what we’re talking about but meh…
Agreed.
…I can’t remember but something about him, like his body, being an actual world…or something…? xDD
o.O Imagine being in FWR... frightening..
Okay, I just thought of something slightly OT but.. How did Fujitaka know to name him Syaoran? Was it "hitsuzen" (probably!)? Or could he (Fujitaka) be working for FWR (probably not!)? Or did Syaoran just have a name tag when Fujitaka found him?
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No, no. I mean he’d have to know that in Syaoran-kun’s heart there was an affection for Sakura separate from himself. Or else testing that “Sakura is most precious” thing would be pointless. As in, in order for him to come up with the theory he had to know of a previous affection for Sakura being in Syaoran-kun….
What it comes down to is you like R!Syaoran I like Syaoran-kun so until we know the end we’re going to continue to see what we want. Agreed? <3
Yes that is what I believe happened
No, it’s not xDD
Because I’m saying that Syaoran-kun’s heart lost out to Clone where you’re saying, from what I’ve gathered from our rather shamefully long discussion, that Syaoran-kun never had a heart to begin with.
Or
….Are you….? *points below*
"Our!Syaoran" was no longer existant.
Caught.
So you DO admit Syaoran-kun had a heart/was seperate?
At the beginning you were saying it was only R!Syaoran’s to begin with but---not anymore…..? =3
If so…then you’re contradicting yourself by saying that---
Because it's R!Syaoran's heart. LOL. Sorry you're probably getting pissed off with me now xD
By the way?
Bad move.
*tackles you to ground* xDD
Yea, see, he has a nice heart *pets it*, but not a strong one. Strong would have been to defend himself instead of standing there getting pegged by those stones. What does standing there prove? It proves that you‘re guilty. Taking the blame moronically for something you didn‘t do. Strong would have been being beside Sakura, knowing that (if it‘s what he wants…idk for sure yet) she will never love him but still smiling for her like Syaoran-kun was doing when he knew their relationship was gone. Strong would have been not starting to say crap about “Are you leaving because of me?” when Sakura took that hit. Sorry but I really, really did not like him in that moment….he sounded like he was turning everything on himself, like before, and that’s just….weak. not everything that happens has to do with you R!Syaoran >.> Or anytime he grabbed her instead of talking with her. Even Kurogane said silent guys are annoying (here here!)
The funniest thing is that people say that Syaoran-kun was over protective, when R!Syaoran is the real one like that. He grabs her, thinking that’s all it takes to get her to listen. Where Syaoran-kun would tell her, like back in Lake Country, that she shouldn’t do certain things because of valid reasons. And when she could, he supported her. He was scared and nervous whenever there was something she was putting herself up to, like in the Country of Idols or even Piffle, but he would be there smiling for her and trusting her. Not all this grab, grab, grab….which by the way freaks her out because R!Syaoran seems to be moving with his heart memories while not having any body memories to back up his touches :p Naughty, naughty. Especially since there’s a different logic between “appropriate” touches between two people in Japanese culture.
Couldn't it have been R!Syaoran's heart that was getting that "warmth" and R!Syaoran's heart that was "melting"?
R!Syaoran had to have been melted or whatever you wanted to call it before going into that tube or else he wouldn’t have risked precious things to him like relationship, time, and freedom to not only protect Sakura and Watanuki, but to give chance to the clone as well :/
Okay, I just thought of something slightly OT but.. How did Fujitaka know to name him Syaoran? Was it "hitsuzen" (probably!)?
OH! That’s soooo weird that you said that!!! xDD I originally put that in my last post and saying why name him Syaoran when the plan was to just kill the kid off…and then I said you would probably say that it would be so he could be easily replaced by R!Syaoran, like a placeholder…but I thought I sounded like a jerk to presume so I edited it out…. But sharing that just made me sound like one anyways >D Yea, I brought that up on the last SyaraonxSakura (version1.0 lol) thread before it was mysteriously deleted but, that doesn’t mean we have an answer to it yet. LoL.
On a side note…thank you for being a R!SyaoranxSakura fan who doesn’t use the argument “because I feel sorry for him…” as validation of why he should be with Sakura. I respect you greatly because of it <3
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No, no. I mean he’d have to know that in Syaoran-kun’s heart there was an affection for Sakura separate from himself. Or else testing that “Sakura is most precious” thing would be pointless. As in, in order for him to come up with the theory he had to know of a previous affection for Sakura being in Syaoran-kun….
No because when R!Syaoran said the whole thing about Sakura being precious, at that stage there was no more "Syaoran-kun"/"Our!Syaoran".. he was gone. There was only the heartless clone left. He knew that somebody's heart had an affection for Sakura (because he watched everything through the eye). He knew that the affection either came from his own heart or a possible grown heart in Cloney.. or both. Therefore it was a way of testing whether the Clone had grown his own heart.
Uhhh I wrote a load more about this whilst getting more and more confused.. so I deleted it.. sorry..
So you DO admit Syaoran-kun had a heart/was seperate?
At the beginning you were saying it was only R!Syaoran’s to begin with but---not anymore…..? =3
Right, okay:
The Clone = A body without a heart
R!Syaoran = A body with a full heart (half of which he temporarily lost but has now regained)
Our!Syaoran = R!Syaoran’s half heart living in the clone’s body.
Lolz look I even drew a little family tree! (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k276/redeternity/familytree.png)
So anyway, when the seal broke the half heart he had went back to R!Syaoran.. which leaves us with the Clone’s body with no heart inside it (like it was originally).
And as Our!Syaoran IS the clone’s body + half a heart.. Without the heart he doesn’t exist anymore.
Gaawd, it’s so hard to say exactly what I mean. I’m gonna give up now!
EDIT: Actually lets put this another way.. I think it’s the use of the our!syaoran thats confusing me. In fact, when I first came to this forum I was confused who “our!Syaoran” even was.
Basically I think there are only 2 existances really... The Clone and R!Syaoran.. The Clone was just different depending on the timeline!
The beginning After R!Syao interfered After R!Syao takes back his heart
Clone without heart ---> Clone with heart ---> Clone without heart again
Yea, see, he has a nice heart *pets it*, but not a strong one. Strong would have been to defend himself instead of standing there getting pegged by those stones. What does standing there prove? It proves that you‘re guilty. Taking the blame moronically for something you didn‘t do. Strong would have been being beside Sakura, knowing that (if it‘s what he wants…idk for sure yet) she will never love him but still smiling for her like Syaoran-kun was doing when he knew their relationship was gone.
The whole thing about that though is that unlike “Our!Syao” (temporary xD), R!Syaoran does have faults (that’s why I love him so much more <3) Because wasn’t the half-heart R!Syao gave “Our!Syao” supposed to be the good side, whilst he was left with the bad side inside him (yin yang and all that)? Is CLAMP really trying to get the moral across that being unrealistically perfect=automatic win?
Strong would have been not starting to say crap about “Are you leaving because of me?” when Sakura took that hit.
You mean that bit just before she got stabbed by Fai? Lets face it though that’s what all us readers were thinking at that stage. Remember when everyone hated Sakura (I didn’t) when she was trying to leave because they assumed that she just couldn’t stand being around R!Syaoran and the group anymore?
Or anytime he grabbed her instead of talking with her.
That is such a CCS!Syaoran thing to do though! Keeping quiet.. showing his emotions through his eyes.. not properly explaining how he feels but doing physical things to show he cares.. And if Sakura is supposed to be like her CCS counterpart.. she should be falling for R!Syaoran since he has the same soul as the CCS!Syaoran that CCS!Sakura fell in love with.. The full heart.. (not only the half that Our!Syaoran had).. with flaws and all.
R!Syaoran had to have been melted or whatever you wanted to call it before going into that tube or else he wouldn’t have risked precious things to him like relationship, time, and freedom to not only protect Sakura and Watanuki, but to give chance to the clone as well :/
Well CCS!Syaoran (sorry, keep mentioning him :evil6:) had always cared for people, just not loved... Like, true love.
Soooo, even before R!Syaoran’s heart melted he still could have cared for Watanuki.. Just not loved him like I think he does for Sakura.. It was the love that melted his heart.. not just simply caring for someone. IMO.
On a side note…thank you for being a R!SyaoranxSakura fan who doesn’t use the argument “because I feel sorry for him…” as validation of why he should be with Sakura. I respect you greatly because of it <3
And I know it's not really quite the same thing but, thank you for not just using the argument that the Clone should be with Sakura simply because “he was there from the beginning”. Loads of people seem to use that and, to me, that is not a valid argument since it was actually FWR that put him there in the first place.
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>Sorry, but the quote button isn't working for me ^^;;
The Clone = A body without a heart
R!Syaoran = A body with a full heart (half of which he temporarily lost but has now regained)
Our!Syaoran = R!Syaoran’s half heart living in the clone’s body Syaoran-kun.
+
Sakura = Wife to all
He knew that somebody's heart had an affection for Sakura (because he watched everything through the eye). He knew that the affection either came from his own heart or a possible grown heart in Cloney.. or both.
Soooo, even before R!Syaoran’s heart melted he still could have cared for Watanuki.. Just not loved him like I think he does for Sakura.. It was the love that melted his heart.. not just simply caring for someone. IMO.
If Syaoran-kun was supposed to be the good side then why did he need to be “melted”? >.> And if there was no "relationship" or love because there was no “warmth” then the price would be unsatisfactory :/
R!Syaoran does have faults
*coughs* He surely does….
Actually. Being perfect=auto fail in this fandom. Which is why people don’t like Syaoran-kun or Sakura (that and the fact she’s a girl…). It kills me when people knock on him and Sakura for being perfect. I mean, even something little like how he let Sakura off to faint back in Lake showed he had faults too. You might think R!Syaoran’s little things are cute but I can’t see anything of R!Syaoran RIGHT NOW other than a poorly developed character. IMO CLAMP screwed the boy over big time. I had big hopes for him and he turned out to be more of a panel-filler and an angst maker. I’m sorry if I sound like a *word that probably shouldn’t be used in forum* but it’s truly how I feel at this point in the story…..nothing to do with R! really, more to do with how CLAMP has portrayed him thus far.
And maybe his spot up to Syaoran-kun’s that lowers him. Syaoran-kun was the main character so we got to see inside his mind where R! it’s totally the opposite…instead of mysterious it just makes him flat. When I read it I feel like CLAMP keeps him that way because they’re not entirely sure of his fate yet so they don’t want him saying anything that could screw up a plan that hasn’t been formed yet….which in turn makes the story flat :/
He's really bad at being like his CCS! counterpart though, because one of the greatest things he had with CCS!Sakura was to be able to talk to work things out that they only knew.
You mean that bit just before she got stabbed by Fai? Lets face it though that’s what all us readers were thinking at that stage.
Everyone? Stay off the Tsubasa forums. They only hurt your brain xDD Sakura is/has been my favorite character from the beginning <3 Anyone who actually reads the series would have known she wouldn’t do something like that. It’s just in that moment, to say that, it was so awkward and whiny xP I really didn’t like the whole Infinity Arc. Mostly because R!Syaoran didn’t live up to holding interest to keep the story going.
It’s sort of sad. Most of the hype around here about ZOMG new chapters!! Died with that arc :/
doing physical things to show he cares....
It is defiantly not coming out that way. Instead it’s like he’s trying to hold her back and “over” protect her, like I was saying. If he cared he would have had a closer eye on her, instead he failed and it seemed Kuro-pon was even was more aware of what she was up to.
And I know it's not really quite the same thing but, thank you for not just using the argument that the Clone should be with Sakura simply because “he was there from the beginning”. Loads of people seem to use that and, to me, that is not a valid argument since it was actually FWR that put him there in the first place.
LoL I think it’s pretty much exactly the same ^^;; because it’s the counter argument of “he’s there right now so they should be together”
And actually hitsuzen brought him there xDD
Ok. It feels like our conversation is going in circles now and for the last five posts >.>
I’m sure both of us sound really stupid to all viewers of this thread (Yay to us xD) We’re fighting for things that we don’t know all about, so what we’re doing is trying to push our own theories out against each other when they don’t want to be taken ^.^;;
So let me try something else. I wanna ask you this since I know your view will be different:
What do you think R!Syaoran’s referring to when he said “even if that heart doesn’t return….”?
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If Syaoran-kun was supposed to be the good side then why did he need to be “melted”? >.>
Eh, I dunno :/ I think he was "a bit off" (as Touya put it) at the start because he had no memories prior to being found by Fujitaka.. maybe..
Actually. Being perfect=auto fail in this fandom. Which is why people don’t like Syaoran-kun or Sakura (that and the fact she’s a girl…). It kills me when people knock on him and Sakura for being perfect.
..I don't like the TRC fandom very much. People are a little overly harsh on Syaoran and Sakura due to their total love of KuroFai I think. Sorry because I am one of those people who does find Cloney a bit too perfect and uninteresting (until he went all heartless and psycho and hawt.. I have a thing for "evil" psycho characters.. Like Light from Death Note lol). But despite the fact I don't overly like him, I do find it quite depressing when people are always bashing him (and Sakura). In fact, people seem to sometimes bash R!Syaoran for simply being in a chapter, like "he's getting in the way of the KuroFai romance" or something. PAH! If/when KuroFai happens, it will happen, regardless of whether Syaoran happens to be in their panel at the same time or not xD Don't complain about Syaoran, complain to CLAMP!
(Actually, I like KuroFai myself but don't get whats sooooo great about them. And why a load of fangirls insist on drawing fanarts with Fai dressed up as a woman in the arms of a bulky Kurogane.. thats not hot.. it's just wrong..)
Anyway, as for Sakura, I thought she was fine in TRC. It's just Cloney I didn't like. There's a very good reason why Sakura is slightly different in TRC to CCS and thats because she lost her memories.. Since her memories make up who she is as a person. The first chapter before she lost them and in all her childhood memories, she's exactly like her CCS counterpart. And even though I never disliked her, I do definately like her a lot more now that she's being all badass with guns and making her own decisions and whatnot. Much love to her <3
With Sakura and Cloney's relationship.. meh, didn't do much for me. Sorry. There was the whole thing about her forgetting him which was admittedly very sad. I remember crying during that scene when she said "Who are you?" and he went out into the rain. But a little while after that, they were all smiley and blushy with each other again.. getting agitated when one of them was in trouble.. holding hands and stuff.. and it just felt a bit like.. okay, so she's obviously fallen in love with him again *yawn*. And the whole way through it was very much the case of "Syaoran the hero" and "Sakura the damsel in distress". And since they're supposed to be teenagers, the whole cutesy thing to their relationship didn't work. *realises she's on an S+S thread* Please don't kill me >< Just my opinion.
You might think R!Syaoran’s little things are cute but I can’t see anything of R!Syaoran RIGHT NOW other than a poorly developed character. IMO CLAMP screwed the boy over big time. I had big hopes for him and he turned out to be more of a panel-filler and an angst maker.
I think there will definately be much more to R!Syaoran in the future than just the emo-guy who angsts. And keep in mind, he did come in at a rather angsty part of the story.. although in a way he caused thr angst but it's not really his fault, poor guy. I know what you mean when you said about him being annoying because he doesn't speak up enough and I respect your opinion.. I just find him a hell of a lot more interesting and attractive than I ever found his clone.
He's really bad at being like his CCS! counterpart though, because one of the greatest things he had with CCS!Sakura was to be able to talk to work things out that they only knew.
But keep in mind it is a very different situation to CCS. The Syaoran is CCS didn't have to put up with feeling like a "replacement".. and besides, CCS Syaoran only spoke to Sakura about the Clow Cards.. never really about his emotions/feelings (except the confession and everything after that.. obviously)
I’m sure both of us sound really stupid to all viewers of this thread (Yay to us xD)
Anyone who's followed our conversation this far deserves a medal or something. Especially if they've managed to understand my posts when I don't even understand half of what I'm saying myself. And since they're obviously interested enough in the subject they should come and join in our discussion *hint*. But we've probably scared everyone off by now xD
What do you think R!Syaoran’s referring to when he said “even if that heart doesn’t return….”?
Hmm.. I think by "that heart" he's referring to the heart that was temporarily in the Clone. He says "even if that heart won't return. I'll protect her no matter what.. Sakura".. so I think he's saying that even if that heart won't go back to the Clone (and he stated before that it can't) he will still protect Sakura...
But thats as far as I can guess. I'm really not entirely sure. What do you think about it?
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Eh, I dunno :/ I think he was "a bit off" (as Touya put it) at the start because he had no memories prior to being found by Fujitaka.. maybe..
*tilts head* Eh?
I don't like the TRC fandom very much...
Seconding that.
And yay. She described her discontent for Syaoran-kun without using the word “boring.” Uninteresting sounds less demeaning…lol. EVERY character gets bashed from getting in the way of KuroxFay >.> but mostly from the people who are rather insecure and don’t have total love for their OTP =3 Yea. Poor R!Syaoran put up with a lot of crap, just because he was standing next to them…or even going to Celes with them…I don’t think he’s much of a “interference” now that he’s on the floor…yet, no one seems to care the actual plot is somewhere around him not on the current battle (get back to plot plz&thnx CLAMP xD)
*realises she's on an S+S thread*
She realizes after all the scene referencing I had to do for her xP
But meh. It’s really the SxSxS thread until we find out what’s going on with Syaoran(s)~
It’s sort of strange how they are overly cute and innocent. I find it adorable but none the less…they act a lot younger then how CCS! Syaoran and Sakura don’t they? >.> Which then leads to the lame fan fiction about them acting like nine year olds in fan fiction…gah.
I think there will definitely be much more to R!Syaoran in the future
Better be xD Though I’m not too happy with him now I still love the guy. Especially when his face gets all shadowed/shaded xD
only spoke to Sakura about the Clow Cards…
That‘s what I‘m talking about. They shared the Clow cards in CCS…they’re sharing this, being up against this FWR, together now but he’s been keeping it all to himself. It might help Sakura a little if she knew more about the person after her body…and I know CLAMP is going to do something to cover it, saying crap about giving too many options and future changing but it’s really killing their relationship, whatever it may be, in the meantime…
What do you think about it?
That whole thing Clow was saying before that just confused me even more--or maybe the translations for it did. Because in one of the translations it was saying how the “him/he” wasn’t a definite pronoun, just like an “it” And then there’s the whole blood related thing….CLAMP does an awesome job messing with my mind. I originally thought he was talking about the clone’s “heart” too…but how it’s said is strange. Almost like it was a separate heart…not a piece, like he had loaned.
[EDIT] Lmao. I didn't even see your family tree! Or the timeline It's true. You really, really have too much time xDD
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Now you're the one replying too quickly ;)
Poor R!Syaoran put up with a lot of crap, just because he was standing next to them…or even going to Celes with them…I don’t think he’s much of a “interference” now that he’s on the floor…yet, no one seems to care the actual plot is somewhere around him not on the current battle (get back to plot plz&thnx CLAMP xD)
So true. I've gotta say the past 2 or so chapters have been so boring (and I feel so Syaoran deprived lately ;_;). Even Syaoran is bored with the fight. He told them to "hurry up" in chapter 161 xD Actually, I wonder.. how is he/are they planning on saving Sakura from dying? They need to get the soul back to the body and in order to do that they need to get into the dream world. Syaoran has been there, but he wasn't in the same part Sakura was in. And whatever made him go to the dream world in the first place is definately to do with Watanuki I think. But I wanna know what!! And I can't theorize yet because I haven't read past xxxholic volume 3 -_-.. I will try and catch up in this 3 week break.
She realizes after all the scene referencing I had to do for her xP
But meh. It’s really the SxSxS thread until we find out what’s going on with Syaoran(s)~
Btw, is there a Syaoran x Syaoran thread anywhere around here? It's my second favourite pairing in TRC, even if it is crack :lol:. There should be one!!
It’s sort of strange how they are overly cute and innocent. I find it adorable but none the less…they act a lot younger then how CCS! Syaoran and Sakura don’t they? >.>
Yeah, exactly. It's really odd. Where were their hormones?!?!? And am I the only one that cringes everytime I see this splash (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter052.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1256)?
Ehh, it feels so weird when you look back on TRC's first 14-ish volumes.. I sometimes wonder if I'm reading the same manga.
they’re sharing this, being up against this FWR, together now but he’s been keeping it all to himself.
I'm not sure if he even knows a great deal more about FWR than any of the rest of them. I mean, yes, somehow he knew about FWR's plan (CLAMP haven't told us how - maybe Clow told him? Or Yuuko?) but he told Kurogane that he couldn't help them because he didn't know what dimension FWR was in or anything like that..
and I know CLAMP is going to do something to cover it, saying crap about giving too many options and future changing
Sorry, what?
That whole thing Clow was saying before that just confused me even more--or maybe the translations for it did. Because in one of the translations it was saying how the “him/he” wasn’t a definite pronoun, just like an “it” And then there’s the whole blood related thing….CLAMP does an awesome job messing with my mind.
Heh, me too. But o.O ..an "it"??! All the translations I saw translated it as him/he.
This is what I thought about it:
"Even if he's someone you should have met, you can't meet him"
"Even if you stretch out your hand you can’t touch him”
"Even if he reflects in your eyes you can't reach him" - I think he's talking to Sakura here for all these 3 lines about not being able to meet/touch/reach R!Syaoran. But he could possibly be talking to Cloney about R!Syaoran.
Then he says: “even if you’ve chosen them for yourself, the painful things won’t change. Even like this.. you want to protect right? Once you have decided something you can't resent that.” - 100% sure he's talking to R!Syaoran here. But not sure what he means by "even like this".
Then he says “This too is like being blood related” – WTF? Have no idea what he means here.
But whatever the case, I think Clow definately knew R!Syaoran was watching through Cloney's eye.
Woah, actually a thought occured to me.. maybe CLAMP were tricking us and that whole speech was directed towards R!Syaoran about Watanuki? Just a thought.
I originally thought he was talking about the clone’s “heart” too…but how it’s said is strange. Almost like it was a separate heart…not a piece, like he had loaned.
[EDIT] Lmao. I didn't even see your family tree! Or the timeline It's true. You really, really have too much time xDD
I hope nobody else has lost a heart or half a heart or something. 'Cause that just means more confusion.
And nah, it only took me a couple of minutes on paint lol
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Now you're the one replying too quickly ;)
Well….ummm…that is-- *hides behind tree*
You’ll miss me when I’m gone next week xP
And I can't theorize yet because I haven't read past xxxholic volume 3 -_-.. I will try and catch up in this 3 week break.
GET ON THAT! There’s important stuff in the recent chapters while Sakura and Watanuki are talking in the dream. Like about how Sakura knows her and Syaoran-kun share the same birthday…how Watanuki means April 1st…and now Watanuki can’t remember his parents names!!! Also she comments a lot about how Watanuki and R!Syaoran are alike which sort of reminds me in CCS when Sakura was saying her father and Eriol were very alike….but I don’t think R!Syaoran is a piece of Clow or of Watanuki or anything like that He doesn’t where glasses after all xDD
That really pretty splash of Sakura back in 160--for a second I thought her body was starting to decompose but it was the overlap they were using ^^;;
Btw, is there a Syaoran x Syaoran thread anywhere around here? It's my second favourite pairing in TRC, even if it is crack :lol:. There should be one!!
Sadly no. Even if more people support SyaoranxSyaoran then Sakura with either xP There’s a non-canon thread (http://www.capturedwings.net/forums/index.php/topic,3200.0.html) here and a Syaoran!cest (http://community.livejournal.com/syaorancest/) community at LJ (where someone just posted a nice little fanart (http://community.livejournal.com/tanuki_art/11884.html) :3) but that’s all I know of. I've been searching for SyaoranxSyaoran fanfics myself :/
Yeah, exactly. It's really odd. Where were their hormones?!?!?
Back in Clow? (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/GaspPants.png)
And am I the only one that cringes everytime I see this splash (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter052.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1256)?
I totally thought SyaoranxYuuko (=“butterfly”) when I clicked. Now there’s a crack!pairing xD
I'm not sure if he even knows a great deal more about FWR than any of the rest of them. I mean, yes, somehow he knew about FWR's plan (CLAMP haven't told us how - maybe Clow told him? Or Yuuko?) but he told Kurogane that he couldn't help them because he didn't know what dimension FWR was in or anything like that..
Still how he ended up there and his connections. If he wanted to stop FWR and FWR knew this, then there’s obviously some pieces we’re missing out on. They’ll come in time…or they better >.>
>>>and I know CLAMP is going to do something to cover it, saying crap about giving too many options and future changing....
As in how Sakura couldn’t tell anyone about her dream, or about who was going to be stabbed because choices only create more options, which then make the future harder to control.
Woah, actually a thought occured to me.. maybe CLAMP were tricking us and that whole speech was directed towards R!Syaoran about Watanuki? Just a thought.
Could make a little more sense about blood related I guess…
Gah. I don’t know what to guess anymore
All I know is that R!Syaoran looked really good in that silhouette in his room xD
I hope nobody else has lost a heart or half a heart or something. 'Cause that just means more confusion.
And nah, it only took me a couple of minutes on paint lol
Just watch. It turns out that the real Sakura’s memories were erased as a child on so that “heart” was the one R!Syaoran loved…and so even if that “Sakura” won’t return, he’s still going to protect her.
And so the theory will be proved with Sakura’s twin entering in this upcoming drama. Lol.
Like we don’t have enough of those running around…though I’m not altogether against Fay!twin (They’re really both sort of Fay at this point I suppose…>.>) making an appearance and giving Kuro-sama some fun =3
And nah, it only took me a couple of minutes on paint lol
You and your Paint skillz xP Quite flaunting it to the world
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You’ll miss me when I’m gone next week xP
Gone for the whole week??!!! NOOOO!! :cry:
GET ON THAT! There’s important stuff in the recent chapters while Sakura and Watanuki are talking in the dream. Like about how Sakura knows her and Syaoran-kun share the same birthday…how Watanuki means April 1st…and now Watanuki can’t remember his parents names!!! Also she comments a lot about how Watanuki and R!Syaoran are alike which sort of reminds me in CCS when Sakura was saying her father and Eriol were very alike….but I don’t think R!Syaoran is a piece of Clow or of Watanuki or anything like that He doesn’t where glasses after all xDD
Ah, well I've read the recent chapters of xxxholic with Sakura and Syaoran.. and up to volume 3.. just not the stuff inbetween. Luckily I don't think I've really spoiled anything for myself by doing that. And yeah.. how did she know about Cloney's birthday being April 1st?? Unless he told her at some point during their travels and I missed it.
I keep thinking R!Syaoran and Watanuki are like, family related. Because Watanuki looks so much like Clow and since R!Syaoran is meant to be blood related to Clow Reed (and presumebly FWR too since they both share the surname "Reed") then maybe R!Syaoran and Watanuki are brothers or something?? And Watanuki just can't remember him because his feathers got sent across alternate dimensions xD for some reason.
Worst case scenario: R!Syaoran is FWR's son xD But the only way this could be possible would be if his mother was extremely beautiful and he got all his genes from her lol.
Sadly no. Even if more people support SyaoranxSyaoran then Sakura with either xP There’s a non-canon thread (http://www.capturedwings.net/forums/index.php/topic,3200.0.html) here and a Syaoran!cest (http://community.livejournal.com/syaorancest/) community at LJ (where someone just posted a nice little fanart (http://community.livejournal.com/tanuki_art/11884.html) :3) but that’s all I know of. I've been searching for SyaoranxSyaoran fanfics myself :/
Looks like the syaorancest community at LJ is members only though. Drat. I don't even have an LJ account - I'm too shy lol.
And ZOMGJSKDHGBEUSINKLD!!!!111 That Syaorancest fanart!! ..wow..!! *saves* Thanks for sharing! I need more!! xD I suddenly have the urge to draw my own fanart of them.. shame I can't draw very well -_-
On a sadder note, I notice that the Flouritecest community has more members than the Syaorancest one. Seriously, wtf is going on?? Syaorancest is love! Syaoran is love! <3 <3 I hate you TRC fandom! *sulks*
Back in Clow? (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/GaspPants.png)
LOL
Still how he ended up there and his connections.
Dunno, perhaps Yuuko sent him there? Since we know he can't dimension travel on his own and he'd know which dimension he was in if he actually lived there. But then it still leaves the question of how he knew in the first place - I think Clow Reed or Clow-ou.
All I know is that R!Syaoran looked really good in that silhouette in his room xD
Syaoran always looks good :D
And so the theory will be proved with Sakura’s twin entering in this upcoming drama. Lol.
In a way Sakura does have a twin. Well, sort of. Since there are kinda two of her - her body and soul. CLAMP really love the whole twin (and eyes) theme don't they?
You and your Paint skillz xP Quite flaunting it to the world
You're just jealous! ....Yeah, I think I'll go reaquaint myself with photoshop...
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Gone for the whole week??!!! NOOOO!! :cry:
Crap load of filing = seclusion.
I’ll be on to spam you PM box but not as much~
And yeah.. how did she know about Cloney's birthday being April 1st?? Unless he told her at some point during their travels and I missed it.
Apparently Syaoran-kun told her back in Piffle (ch137 (http://groups.msn.com/eXeXeXHOLICManga/chapter137.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2213)) O.o Wasn’t she supposed to faint or something….and why the hell did CLAMP exclude such an adorable moment from meeeee >.>
And Watanuki just can't remember him because his feathers got sent across alternate dimensions xD for some reason.
*pictures Watanuki with wings*
*brain ded*
Worst case scenario: R!Syaoran is FWR's son xD But the only way this could be possible would be if his mother was extremely beautiful and he got all his genes from her lol.
Lolz~
Looks like the syaorancest community at LJ is members only though. Drat. I don't even have an LJ account - I'm too shy lol.
Ah, right. I forgot. >.> Since I’m a member I don’t even pay attention xDD
…shy? EXCUSES!!!
And ZOMGJSKDHGBEUSINKLD!!!!111 That Syaorancest fanart!! ..wow..!! *saves* Thanks for sharing! I need more!! xD I suddenly have the urge to draw my own fanart of them.. shame I can't draw very well -_-
Maybe you can use your amazing Paint skillz….DO IT!!! 8D
On a sadder note, I notice that the Flouritecest community has more members than the Syaorancest one. Seriously, wtf is going on?? Syaorancest is love! Syaoran is love! <3 <3 I hate you TRC fandom! *sulks*
Because now there’s two Fay’s to love xP
In an attempt to steer our conversation back OT *shifty eyes*…. I was thinking about this…what did you make of Subaru knowing who Sakura’s most precious person was??? She didn’t even seem to know right away until he started nudging her that he wouldn’t return…
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I’ll be on to spam you PM box but not as much~
You can't spam me much. I'm only allowed 5 PMs ^___^.
Apparently Syaoran-kun told her back in Piffle (ch137 (http://groups.msn.com/eXeXeXHOLICManga/chapter137.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2213)) O.o Wasn’t she supposed to faint or something….and why the hell did CLAMP exclude such an adorable moment from meeeee >.>
What??! How was that ever there?? I swear that panel with the picture of Syaoran and Sakura in piffle was never in that chapter of 'holic when I read it before!! Eh, oh well. Lol.
Annnyway, speaking of missing scenes, I've been thinking that there might be quite a few more scenes CLAMP hasn't shown us. For example, I noticed this a while back but.. here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter144.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3486) (top right panel) it really looks like Sakura-hime has another premonition after touching Fai's hand. Yes/no?
…shy? EXCUSES!!!
Heh, I actually am kinda shy. Why do you think I lurk so much? *blush*
Maybe you can use your amazing Paint skillz….DO IT!!! 8D
Is that an order? xD
Alas, my drawing skills on paint are worse than my drawing-on-paper skills. The lines come out all wobbly and I'd go insane after about 5 minutes or trying to keep a steady hand.
In an attempt to steer our conversation back OT *shifty eyes*…. I was thinking about this…what did you make of Subaru knowing who Sakura’s most precious person was??? She didn’t even seem to know right away until he started nudging her that he wouldn’t return…
Hmmm I never really thought about that before actually! You could also ask the question how he knew Syaoran wouldn't return (meaning that he knew Syaoran was a clone and the seal was breaking). I guess.. because he has power? Because the powerful people in Tsubasa can seemingly figure out anything. e.g. Yuuko already knew what was most important to Syaoran, Fai and Kurogane without having to ask them. Or alternatively maybe Subaru just saw another Syaoran and Sakura together whilst he was travelling with Kamui. If so, I wanna see them too! (Thats another thing.. Will the TRC gang ever run into another world version of themselves? And why is it that this has not happened already?)
<random>Btw, did you know Subaru was named after a car?! xD I saw one the other day and I was like ZOMG IT'S SUBARU! How have I never noticed this before??</random>
I'm interested to know your opinion on this... What did you make of what Syaoran said back in chapter 134 about something he wants to get back: here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter134.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3189) and here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter134.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3190)? He is definately staring straight at Sakura when he says it.
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You can't spam me much. I'm only allowed 5 PMs ^___^.
Ahahah. You newbie >D
Annnyway, speaking of missing scenes, I've been thinking that there might be quite a few more scenes CLAMP hasn't shown us. For example, I noticed this a while back but.. here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter144.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3486) (top right panel) it really looks like Sakura-hime has another premonition after touching Fai's hand. Yes/no?
I’m sure there’s multiple scenes CLAMP forgot to put in hasn’t shown us xP I know it’s hard, since there’s already so much going on, but I wish they would learn to incorporate these things in the story because they end up looking like plot holes >.>
Heh, I actually am kinda shy. Why do you think I lurk so much? *blush*
LIES.
Is that an order? xD
Yessss.
ZOMG IT'S SUBARU! How have I never noticed this before??</random>
LOL! I always think of that Subaru when I see the car too =3
I'm interested to know your opinion on this... What did you make of what Syaoran said back in chapter 134 about something he wants to get back: here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter134.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3189) and here (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter134.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3190)? He is definately staring straight at Sakura when he says it.
I guess it all goes back to the “I have to get it back, no matter what” then “will he make it in time?” and then “he didn’t make it in time” and other various mentions (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/Nomatterwhat.png) Nothing seems to lead to Sakura directly (he only looked at her with the protect part) and nothing seems to make sense of having to be there in Tokyo to get something back in that moment unless it’s having to do with Syaoran-kun….
And so then Mari started thinking about eyes xP
(just using C! and R! to reference bodies)
Beginning:
C!Syaoran has R!Syaoran’s LEFT eye in his RIGHT eye
R!Syaoran has C!Syaoran’s RIGHT eye in his RIGHT eye
After Toyko:
R!Syaoran has his LEFT eye in his LEFT
R!Syaoran still has C!Syaoran’s RIGHT eye in his RIGHT eye (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/RightEye.png) (which seems to be effecting him recently...)
C!Syaoran has “a LEFT” eye in his LEFT
C!Syaoran has Fay’s LEFT eye in his RIGHT
Where the hell is R!Syaoran’s RIGHT eye???
What’s more, it seems R!Syaoran’s LEFT eye has the ability to see in the dream world Sakura and Watanuki frequent
This then goes back to the “to go to the person who this right eye came from” where we were all thinking shouldn’t it be “to go to the person who has this left eye?” So I guess we can assume R!Syaoran TOOK the right eye, and placed the seal and a piece of his heart in there instead? Explains why the kid can’t see at all…
Also in Syaoran-kun’s dreams it’s strange that C!Syaoran is imaged like R!Syaoran. With where the patch is on his eye? If it was truly C!Syaoran and Syaoran-kun were one in the same, then shouldn’t he have a patch over his other eye??? And you can tell who is who because R!Syaoran has his tattoos on and C!Syaoran doesn’t have any. Not to mention it’s odd that C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran both call Syaoran-kun “Syaoran” in the dreams (Which brings to question, if it was only a piece of a heart that made up Syaoran-kun, I don’t think R!Syaoran would be calling him “Syaoran” )
The looking the same thing really makes little sense unless R!Syaoran had “pycho nature” in his body the whole time, and the seal was just ensuring that “pycho nature” couldn’t get to Syaoran-kun’s body….Because apparently, according to C!Syaoran he’s been “waiting for so long…”
What does this all mean? I wish I knew
I suppose I’m saying it’s more likely, at this point, that R!Syaoran is looking for his right eye opposed to trying to get, for instance, a relationship back with Sakura. Maybe his right eye even has something to do with her though and it’s a danger to her and that’s why he’s protecting her. unless she has the right eye in her along with a piece of his heart LOL.
But then you start adding in Sakura’s “From now on, you can be free” and I have no freakin’ clue what’s going on >.>
...and it probably has little do with eyes but...I was on an eye high >P
There's still so much missing and that's why I'm finding it hard to believe that R!Syaoran and Sakura will be together. That and the fact I get creeped out that R!Syaoran would be wearing Syaoran-kun's clothes from Clow *shivers*
On another note, I wonder if Sakura is 100% sure that her Syaoran's heart is still out there....and I wonder if it has something to do with her power to "hear lonely voices/those who have no voice" I was sort of thinking about that since I saw this splash with Syaoran-kun when he was younger and it said "Even if this body should meet it's end, these feeling alone will remain in a corner of the world"
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Personally, I agree with redeternity. Unfortunately, I have nothing to add to the conversation since everything's already been laid out and we won't know any more until CLAMP tells us. I have been a fan of Syaoran since CCS as well, so I may be biased in my favoring R!Syaoran. I just found the clone one-dimensional, creepy, and artificial from the beginning. I was like-what has CLAMP done to Syaoran!? Then I found out about the whole R!Syaoran/C!Syaoran thing and I'm like Ohhh, so that's why I felt that way.
If C!Syaoran had grown a heart, even in the slightest measure, I don't think R!Syaoran would've tried to kill him. He seemed to really care for his clone like a brother, so I think he really tried his best to make sure there wasn't anything there before he tried to kill him. He was obviously very upset at the prospect of killing him, but he didn't want the heartless clone killing anyone. R!Syaoran would've tried to subdue the clone in some other manner and not tried to kill him if he really believed there was even the tiniest seed of a heart there.
Plus, if C!Syaoran has his own heart, then he's not really a "Syaoran" at all, he's someone else-a completely different person. I have wondered if CLAMP might do that-the clone's body will "die", but his heart that he grew (if that turns out to be true somehow) would go into another body (Watanuki maybe, though I would rather him be with Doumeki). That would mean no Sakura x Syaoran in TRC, it would be "whoever the clone ended up being by growing his own heart" x Sakura, and as a Sakura x Syaoran shipper, I'm totally against that. :p
Another thing I almost forgot- What happens if what you're saying is true and C!Syaoran regains his "lost" heart? He'll have the memories of killing countless people. Even if by some chance, his heart doesn't remember the murdering because it was the clone "program" doing it, he'll still feel the intense guilt and pain deep inside I would imagine. He'll live his life with Sakura, but have nightmares forever about the things he did. I just can't see C!Syaoran getting "his" heart back as a good thing. His body has committed countless murders and god knows what else, and if he finds out he was given his heart initially by R!Syaoran, I just can't see him being happy about that. He will be a very sad person, and become much different than the one you all seem to treasure.
Plus, the shameless fangirl in me is like "R!Syaoran is more interesting and angsty and hot!" Squeee! Plus, wouldn't it be hot if C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran merged, complete with (Touya x Yue)-like "almost kiss" The Syaorancest-shipper in me likeys...it's yummy!
...and I know CLAMP will develop him more as the chapters go on. He's still the cutesy, blushy guy that his half-self was. R!Syaoran has those aspects of his personality, but isn't showing them for Sakura's sake, the situation at hand, and maybe for his own sake as well. Everything is just too angsty right now to not be emo. I think once Sakura's body and soul are reunited and Celes is finished that R!Syaoran will start showing his personality more and showing those aspects which were displayed by his clone. Maybe that's the main reason (other than the mood at the time) why CLAMP didn't show drunk R!Syaoran-it would show those other aspects that were in his other (yang) half. ("yang" is C!Syaoran before releasing the 1/2 heart to R!Syaoran as opposed to R!Syaoran-pre-getting-his-other-1/2-heart-back as "yin"---they are 2 opposing halves of the same person) CLAMP is really big on yin and yang, aren't they? BTW, yin and yang don't refer to "good" and "evil" at all. I keep seeing people posting that...
I just wanted to exclaim my support for R!Syaoran, and I ended up writing so much. Sorry for the rambling... :sweatdrop:
R!Syaoran x Sakura forever!
(although a little R!Syaoran x C!Syaoran fanservice would be the cherry on top! XD
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Wow. It would be nice if people would act like adults and give a reason as to why they would give negative feedback to someone who is only expressing their opinion. I have nothing against anyone, yet so many people seem determined to test the limits of my depression.
Then again, the whole "cookie" system obviously wasn't created by mature adults. It's a "high-school-esque" popularity contest, and god knows I'm not even in the running in those in real life. Why do I even bother getting up in the morning I wonder?
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@ cryingforthemoon - First of all, welcome to CW :D
Secondly, yay, you're a R!SyaoranxSakura fan!
I agree with most of what you said in your post, particularly the whole thing about Cloney not being the same if he got his heart back due to all the mass-murdering he's been doing. This was something I have been thinking too.
Plus, if C!Syaoran has his own heart, then he's not really a "Syaoran" at all, he's someone else-a completely different person.
I wondered this too but it's not definate that this would be the case. It's uncertain whether if he grew a heart it would be like R!Syaoran's (same soul/personality) or if it would be completely different.
Plus, wouldn't it be hot if C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran merged, complete with (Touya x Yue)-like "almost kiss" The Syaorancest-shipper in me likeys...it's yummy!
Although I completely agree that an almost kiss would be hot (a proper kiss would be better though!!) ..why merge? I don't get it when people say they should merge. If C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran merged all that would be merging would be the bodies since Cloney has no heart to merge with R!Syaoran's. However, if he has grown his own heart then it could be one of two things:.
1. If the heart is the same as R!Syaoran's (same soul/personality) then merging would again produce the same person.
2. If it is different to R!Syaoran's (different soul/personality) it would produce a different person who was not "Syaoran" (and we don't want that!)
PS. Poor you for getting a cookie deducted! I would give you one but I can't, unfortunately. Don't take it personally, though, because the same thing happened to me except I actually got THREE deducted for absolutely NO REASON whatsoever. It's probably just some Clone fan getting annoyed because we have a different opinion from them.
@ Mari - What will you do if I refuse to draw the Syaorancest fanart? :P
I may try drawing it on paper at some point.. But I've never drawn a kiss before.. :/
Nothing seems to lead to Sakura directly (he only looked at her with the protect part)
His sentences are linked to Sakura in both circumstances..
He says: "It probably won't come back BUT if I can protect I want to protect (Sakura)"
and: "EVEN IF that heart won't return I promised to protect her.. Sakura"
So whatever it is that he wants to get back and "that heart" are somehow linked to Sakura (and him protecting her). So then you could take it as Syaoran wanting to get the Clone's heart back for Sakura's sake. But I don't think this is the case because he said so himself that it could never go back to C!Syaoran.
Where the hell is R!Syaoran’s RIGHT eye???
He lost it in all the confusion of the eye switching xD
But seriously though I'd never noticed before that he said that he wanted to go "to the person from whom this right eye came from". But.. I'm confused, if his right eye is from Cloney.. well, I don't get why he'd take it in the first place? Isn't that the eye that can see through to where C!Syaoran is? Does he still have Cloney's eye then? If so, does that mean that even now, he can still see where Cloney is and what he's doing? o.O
And you make an interesting point about trying to get back his original eye (if he did indeed borrow the Clone's for whatever reason). Maybe he does want to get his eye back.. but.. I hope not. Too confusing @.@
As for in Celes, I thought it was his eye that was causing the problem at first too. But, I'm not convinced - it could just be his head, like an (extreme) headache. But whatever the reason I think it happened because Watanuki was dissapearing rather than having anything to do with Cloney. Although.. the whole headache thing seemed to start RIGHT AFTER he stepped into the castle. Coincidence? I'm not so sure.
Also in Syaoran-kun’s dreams it’s strange that C!Syaoran is imaged like R!Syaoran.
First of all, no way is it because R!Syaoran has a "psycho nature" *huggles him*.
I'm confused about this too but I'll try my hand at explaining what I think might possibly be the case..
Basically, I think the reason why C!Syaoran's true self is dressed in R!Syaoran's attire in his dream is precisely because it's his dream. Dreams.. do not always make perfect sense (infact they rarely do).. add to that they're partly influenced by what you yourself think, right? So, if you think about it C!Syaoran did not know he was a clone. He did not know that his half heart was borrowed. He did not know his true self was coming through.. And he did not know who R!Syaoran was.. But because he saw R!Syaoran previously in his dreams appearing as a little kid, it was his image that he saw again in his dreams in chapter 91 and 113 strangling him and saying "I've been waiting so long". He assumed he was a bad guy like we did at that stage, therefore he saw his true self wearing R!Syaoran's attire because it made more sense to him that way.
..probably xD Haha, yeah the whole thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. Maybe CLAMP will clear it up in the future.
There's still so much missing and that's why I'm finding it hard to believe that R!Syaoran and Sakura will be together.
Yeah. I'm not saying a relationship between them is going to happen overnight either. But.. but.. I'm optimistic.. if Syaoran keeps to his promise of protecting Sakura then hopefully he will be the one in the tube with her. Plus, R!Syaoran is one up on Cloney at this stage in that he's actually already been in the dream world, whereas Cloney has not yet. Plus, how is Cloney going to get in without a soul, I wonder?
That and the fact I get creeped out that R!Syaoran would be wearing Syaoran-kun's clothes from Clow *shivers*
I've been pondering the whole tube thing recently and came up with a lot of questions like..
Was it FWR's plan all along to have Sakura in the tube? Or is she there against his wishes? Maybe it was FWR's plan to get her in the tube but he had planned it some other way.. i wonder if it matters to him which Syaoran is in the tube with her.. Could it be he didn't want R!Syaoran to be the one and so tried to kill him?
I also have another theory.. could it be that the scene we saw in chapter 1 is not what is going to happen in the tube but what COULD HAVE happened had she not changed the future (by being stabbed herself instead of R!Syaoran)?
I saw this splash with Syaoran-kun when he was younger and it said "Even if this body should meet it's end, these feeling alone will remain in a corner of the world"
I wouldn't rely on the teasers on the splash (and at the end of the chapter). I seem to remember reading somewhere that the teasers were not written by CLAMP but by the people publishing the chapters or something?
(gawd I wrote a lot :o )
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Plus, if C!Syaoran has his own heart, then he's not really a "Syaoran" at all
CLAMP logic here. Syaoran-kun was named that way and even given a birthday (which I think might be linked in someway to Watanuki). Those make a Syaoran.
if C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran merged
I don’t understand the whole merge thing either ^^;; If there’s any "merging" than I would say that it already took place and that was the merge of Syaoran-kun and his “clone program” (because, truly, that’s two pieces of a "soul") Unlike R!Syaoran who, assuming he stops giving away all odd piece of him, is really a full person.
Celes is finished that R!Syaoran will start showing his personality
I don’t think there’s much to do after Celes, much less time for more development. CLAMP seems all plot, plot, plot now and we’ve had little time for thoughts and person >.< Sakura’s soul is already loosing time in the tube so once they get her body it’s really going to start moving. I assume they’ll have to go to Clow--
OH! SCARY THOUGHT!! BAD SCARY THOUGHT!!
What if Clone already went to Clow country?!?! Doing the same thing that he was doing everywhere else?!?!
OMG *cries*
@ Mari - What will you do if I refuse to draw the Syaorancest fanart? :P
I will smite you with the almighty stick of d00m >D
…that reminds me of something! *goes off to get it for you*
His sentences are linked to Sakura in both circumstances..
Well, yes. Of course she’s “linked” xP The thing about those lines are they aren’t solid, and there’s blanks that your mind fills. Sort of how back in Tokyo we had that clip of Real!Fay saying “but before that--” and then people inserted “…I want to be loved” CLAMP is more or less likely leaving those spaces to make you purposefully think you can fill it in, but I have a feeling it’s not so much the case or as easy as that.
And like that above arch, until R!Syao finally decides to break the silence we can’t be using it to support much of anything :/ It was right to assume back then that the little boy was Our!Fay since we knew of no other…or how everyone passed over the “right eye thing” and assumed it was left…just like right now it’s right that you assume that when he speaks of Sakura he’s talking of TRC!Sakura and her directly…
He lost it in all the confusion of the eye switching xD
The right eye will probably turn up in Watanuki anyways *sigh*
That boy needs to quite lending out body parts
Does he still have Cloney's eye then? If so, does that mean that even now, he can still see where Cloney is and what he's doing? o.O
I don't see why not but I’m not sure about the still seeing part :/ I guess that depends how Fay’s eye is working in C!Syaoran?….it was because he kept Syaoran-kun blind in that eye that R!Syaoran could see I thought (which brings up the question that how can an eye be made not to see…?)
Besides. Everyone knows R!Syaoran is just holdinig onto Syaoran-kun’s right eye so that Fay will get his eye back, Syaoran-kun will get his original right eye back and everything will be good again xDD
First of all, no way is it because R!Syaoran has a "psycho nature" *huggles him*.
No, no. What I was playing with was that R!Syaoran had been keeping the “clone program” in his body in hopes to give Syaoran-kun a chance to develop a heart of his own so that when the seal on his eye was broken his new heart wouldn’t allow him to be overpowered by the “clone program”
In which case we’d start getting into R!Syaoran puts half his heart and an eye in C!Syaoran, while he takes “half a heart” (clone program) and an eye. So that the two really have a piece of each other inside of them, as well as a piece of themselves (true soul Syaoran!cest at it‘s finest)
I'm confused about this too but I'll try my hand at explaining what I think might possibly be the case..
This would be very out there, especially since a very dominant aspect of TRC is dreams and dream seeing. Remember dreams are not merely dreams in this story, but they are their own world, and it seems the only place so far where two people who share the same soul are able to met (Piffle with Tomoyos) Going along with this you could assume that Clow was speaking to R!Syaoran about Syaoran-kun back in Chapter 138 if two people who share the same soul are only able to meet in a dream world. Therefore R!Syaoran can only speak with and be with Syaoran-kun there. If it was the case that R!Syaoran was helping out and keeping the “clone” inside of him then a dream would be a very easy path to the person who shares a soul. R!Syaoran and “clone” can speak to each other outside the dream because they are not both “Syaorans”! Syaoran-kun is a Syaoran <3
Another point that was in the Omake was how Mokona said that when Syaoran-kun slept he didn’t move and “it looked like he was sleeping but….” , to which Yuuko just gave a sad smile. Me thinks these “Syaoran” dreams (which may not even turn out to be dreams, because remember--even the dreams are another world) will play another part. We see a small hint of it in the last arc with when R!Syaoran spoke in his sleep…which was eerily reminiscent of when “clone program” spoke through Syaoran-kun.
Also, we still need to clear up that if Syaoran-kun wasn’t a Syaoran then why would “clone program” be calling him so…? Kurogane even bore witness. (Coincidental that he saw R!Syaoran sleep talking too…? =3)
Plus, R!Syaoran is one up on Cloney
That doesn’t mean he can become a clothing robber >.>
Also, so far, it’s fair to assume that Clow clothes=Syaoran-kun. He’s even worn them when he was in a dream once…could this be his soul’s form…?
I've been pondering the whole tube thing recently and came up with a lot of questions like..
I don’t know…it seems she choose to go there but, as the story reflects, it was hitsuzen that she did end up there. Also, what’s up with the wings? I thought FWR was only after her body with the world memories? But it looks like the wings are almost taking her back to her body and it’s like…she’s leaving Syaoran-kun there instead of the other way around. Maybe because Syaoran-kun’s “heart” no longer has a body to go to so he‘s going vanish in the way Sakura‘s soul wouldn‘t have been able to last there either :/
I was wondering myself, if this is the dream world and the tube are the same then where is the tube part??? But if that picture is somewhat accurate I showed you awhile back then maybe Watanuki, Sakura, and R!Syaoran, (as well as Doumeki’s grandfather, I believe) have all appeared on one side in the long ends. In xxxHolic it seemed at first Sakura was going into Watanuki’s dreams…with how there was that tree and all…? But now that tree is gone and there’s only black (possibly the long tunnel of the tube) and this is why people are telling Watanuki to not go there, because he’s leaving his dream and being pulled into the tube instead :/
I don’t know what FWR wants with him exactly because when R!Syaoran woke up he’s like “Oh, he’s up. That’s nice…let’s see what happens” If he didn’t want him up then couldn’t he have shown a little more care that someone he had trapped was escaping? >.< And if you’re going to let him go, why the hell are you tattooing him up and keeping him there in the first place? Everything seems to contradict itself nicely so good luck to CLAMP on that.
I wouldn't rely on the teasers on the splash
Oh, I wasn’t saying it was foreshadowing. I just said that was the thing that gave me the idea about Sakura and how she seems certain of getting Syaoran-kun’s heart. I know for sure it’s the taglines (the sayings at the end of the chapter) that are written by the publishers though.
[ARGUMENT] If Syaoran-kun wasn’t destined to be TRC!Syaoran then why would CLAMP put him in their Wonderland? Him and Hien are definitely with Sakura and other canon couples =3
But total LOL @ that poster (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/Truthseeker48/Wonderland-1.jpg). The way Syaoran-kun is holding the reins to the scary dragon and she’s sitting all nice and they’re both smiling…it’s more like they’re riding a horse and carriage together xD So adorable and so them! I miss their smiles and their happiness! <3
*cough cough* You thought you had a long post…? I had to cut stuff out
…Don’t blame you if you don’t read all xP
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I don’t think there’s much to do after Celes, much less time for more development. CLAMP seems all plot, plot, plot now and we’ve had little time for thoughts and person >.<
Sorry because I'm replying to this when it wasn't directed at me but.. Just wanna say, I'm sure CLAMP will fit in character development for him somewhere (if not in Tsubasa, in xxxholic maybe?). Even if it is all plot, plot, plot right now they at least have to fit in his past at some point. Also, IF it is R!Syaoran in the tube, I think then we might get some character development. If it is him in there, I definately think he and Sakura will talk for a while first.
Even if it isn't him in the tube (better be grr.. makes me sad to think of it being Cloney in there. Me don't want ;_;) they just HAVE to fit in the development for him somewhere otherwise it would be pretty pointless having him in the manga in the first place.. Maybe after the whole tube scene happens.
If there’s any "merging" than I would say that it already took place and that was the merge of Syaoran-kun and his “clone program” (because, truly, that’s two pieces of a "soul")
Uh.. is it? I don't see how Cloney's programming makes up part of his soul.. Actually I would say the merging took place way back when R!Syaoran first gave his half heart away to the clone. In a sense, "Our Syaoran" is the result of R!Syaoran's half heart and Cloney's body merging.
I guess you could say that when R!Syaoran got his heart back in Acid Tokyo it was merging.. but I don't think so because it was his heart in the first place.
…that reminds me of something! *goes off to get it for you*
The Syaorancest fanart? Found it yet?
[ARGUMENT] If Syaoran-kun wasn’t destined to be TRC!Syaoran then why would CLAMP put him in their Wonderland?
I would guess for the same reason that one of his eyes isn't blue, R!Syaoran is nowhere to be seen and Fai is not wearing an eyepatch - SPOILERS.
No, no. What I was playing with was that R!Syaoran had been keeping the “clone program” in his body in hopes to give Syaoran-kun a chance to develop a heart of his own so that when the seal on his eye was broken his new heart wouldn’t allow him to be overpowered by the “clone program”
In which case we’d start getting into R!Syaoran puts half his heart and an eye in C!Syaoran, while he takes “half a heart” (clone program) and an eye. So that the two really have a piece of each other inside of them, as well as a piece of themselves (true soul Syaoran!cest at it‘s finest)
R!Syaoran never took the "clone program" from Cloney.. If he did we'd know because when he got free from FWR's tube he'd be all "must... get... feathers". It was in Cloney the whole time but it was just less overpowering due to the fact that he had a half heart. If R!Syaoran had taken the "clone program" then why did FWR say about C!Syaoran that "as long as the determination to gather feathers remained that was all that mattered". Since FWR is second in line in power to Clow Reed I think he would have known if R!Syaoran had taken it.
Also, we still need to clear up that if Syaoran-kun wasn’t a Syaoran then why would “clone program” be calling him so…?
Cloney is a special case in TRC. He is not merely another world version of "Syaoran" - he was cl;oned and without a heart (at first until R!Syaoran intervened). Therefore he will never be a true "Syaoran" unless he can grow a heart that is exactly like that of the other Syaorans. I believe he was called Syaoran in his dreams because at that point he still had the half heart of R!Syaoran inside him (although I guess he should have really been called "half-Syaoran" xD but meh). Plus, it was what Fujitaka named him.. which goes back to the whole was it hitsuzen thing.. I still think that maybe if it wasn't hitsuzen then it might have been FWR of Clow who told Fujitaka beforehand to name him Syaoran.
Also, so far, it’s fair to assume that Clow clothes=Syaoran-kun. He’s even worn them when he was in a dream once…could this be his soul’s form…?
I dunno. I'm not convinced yet. If those clothes are his soul's form then why is Sakura not wearing her princess' clothes in the dreamworld? If her princess' clothes don't represent her, then why would his Clow Clothes represent him?
Actually, to be frank, I think it's pointless talking about their clothing because at the moment it seems a bit random what they wear in their dreams. For example, in xxxholic when R!Syaoran appeared in the dream world in front of Watanuki he wore his Celes Clothing... well, that can't represent him surely? And he was also pictured on that splash with Watanuki wearing his FWR imprisonment outfit (again, same thing). And also, although C!Syaoran may have been in a dream with his Clow Clothes on once, he has also been in dreams wearing different outfits.
Speaking of clothes, I noticed that when they showed the stabbing that was supposed to happen with Fai and Syaoran they are wearing different clothes (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter1521.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3771) (not the Infinity ones or Tokyo ones). I wonder why? FWR says he’d planned it to happen to Syaoran “shortly after regaining his original power”.. eh? Original power? So I guess he doesn’t have his original power back yet then? Maybe that’s the thing he wants to get back? My guess is R!Syaoran was going to be stabbed at a later date in a different world but Sakura changed that by getting more powerful than Fai earlier (because from what I gathered I think that curse would only work once). Rarg, I really want to know more about R!Syaoran right now. *impatient*
just like right now it’s right that you assume that when he speaks of Sakura he’s talking of TRC!Sakura and her directly…
He definitely is talking about TRC Sakura in regards to the “protect” thing anyway, since he looked right at her.
Oh, I wasn’t saying it was foreshadowing. I just said that was the thing that gave me the idea about Sakura and how she seems certain of getting Syaoran-kun’s heart.
I do wonder whether she still wants to return the heart like she said she did back in Acid Tokyo. Since she said that she’s had all the premonitions and whatnot and could well have changed her mind. And hopefully she’s realised by now the heart belongs to R!Syaoran not Cloney. I really hope she has realised this *crosses fingers* because if she still has her mind set on “returning” the heart I think she’s wasting her time – sorry! Plus, if she did somehow manage to do it (IMO I think she can’t due to what R!Syaoran said) that’s so horrible for R!Syaoran ;_; Even if she doesn’t have feelings for him, she definitely cares for him.
PS. Sorry this post was very rushed, I apologise for any mistakes. I am going away for a few days (nowhere exciting though). You probably won’t even notice I’m gone but I thought I'd let you know because I will take a couple of days longer to reply than I do usually.
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Arg. Sorry for the late reply >.< Putting together 1000 packets is
brain damaging time consuming.
it would be pretty pointless having him in the manga in the first place
*laughs* That’s definitely what is has been feeling like for the past 3 Volumes
merging.
Where did this whole merge thing start out anyways? Me thinks because of the Teaser
I would guess for the same reason that one of his eyes isn't blue, R!Syaoran is nowhere to be seen and Fai is not wearing an eyepatch - SPOILERS.
LoL. So quick to defend you miss the point of my argument. I mean, if Syoaran-kun was meant to perish then why would they put him in something as a representation of what TRC is? This isn’t like a poster that they change every month, this is their showcase for years. Besides, it’s been a year now and R!Syaoran has nothing to back his importance/existence in this series.
R!Syaoran never took the "clone program" from Cloney.. If he did we'd know because when he got free from FWR's tube he'd be all "must... get... feathers". It was in Cloney the whole time but it was just less overpowering due to the fact that he had a half heart. If R!Syaoran had taken the "clone program" then why did FWR say about C!Syaoran that "as long as the determination to gather feathers remained that was all that mattered".
Not necessarily. Because R!Syaoran has his own heart so he wouldn’t be over powered by stuff like that. Also, it was after C!Syaoran had already been with Syaoran-kun so he already left :p But, like I was saying, I was just playing with the idea to understand why C!Syaoran looked like R!Syaoran. Not really supporting it but just throwing it out there to make myself look stupid once we know what’s really happening And the “determination to gather feathers remained” was still there without “program” because of Syaoran-kun’s will, just in a different sense xP
I still think that maybe if it wasn't hitsuzen then it might have been FWR of Clow who told Fujitaka beforehand to name him Syaoran.
Ahaha. You just supported my argument. xDD
And it would still be Hitsuzen even if, though I highly doubt, a FWR of Clow had told him. Everything is!
I dunno. I'm not convinced yet. If those clothes are his soul's form then why is Sakura not wearing her princess' clothes in the dreamworld? If her princess' clothes don't represent her, then why would his Clow Clothes represent him?
I was going to respond to this but my answer would be similar to my post a few back, as was yours right now. LoL. We’ve finally reached the point of repetition. Yay…?
And also, although C!Syaoran may have been in a dream with his Clow Clothes on once, he has also been in dreams wearing different outfits.
The time he wore his Clow clothes was the first time “clone” was able to touch him though, which was why it struck me. But yea. Enough with clothes… O.o
Speaking of clothes, I noticed that when they showed the stabbing that was supposed to happen
NM. Back to clothes…
I don’t think it was to happen in a different world because Sakura said herself that “the thing I saw in the dream will take place in this final battle” And I thought he did have it back, but because Sakura went for the feathers she became even stronger.
He definitely is talking about TRC Sakura in regards to the “protect” thing anyway, since he looked right at her.
I mean it’s in what sense that you’re completing the sentence.
I do wonder...
Sakura is defiantly still identifying the two as different because back before the battle she says that “I traveled with someone who shares an appearance with you” and she is also still referring to them differently to Watanuki. We still don’t know what it actually means to have half of R!Syaoran in Syaoran-kun anyways. Because Eriol and Fujitaka-san were two pieces of Clow but they were certainly different beings.
Kk. Have fun! ^.^
[PS] I see you finally got yourself a banner!! <3
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*laughs* That’s definitely what is has been feeling like for the past 3 Volumes
Lol! So harsh! Poor R!Syao! I love him anyways xD
Keep in mind, though, C!Syaoran got a whole 15 volumes to himself. R!Syaoran only made his entrance in volume 16, giving him only about 5 volumes so far - one of which has been entirely focused on Fai's past (so really about 4 volumes then). PLUS, unlike the 15 vols when C!Syaoran was the main character, the focus hasn't been on R!Syaoran during much of the time he's been around (e.g. Infinity World - focus on Sakura; Celes - focus on Fai/Ashura). Also, ever since he appeared all the TRC gang (except Kuro maybe) have been angsting (not only Syaoran) so he hasn't had much of a chance to show his true self yet. Had Fai been angsting from the very beginning nobody probably would have liked him either.
Anyway, I've said this a thousand times already but Fai's. past. over. now. plzkthnx. One or two more chapters hopefully?
I mean, if Syoaran-kun was meant to perish then why would they put him in something as a representation of what TRC is? This isn’t like a poster that they change every month, this is their showcase for years.
C!Syaoran represents TRC because he's the main character and has been around 15 vols (whereas R!Syaoran has only been around 5).
...Besides, he has R!Syaoran's heart in him so technically it's actually R!Syaoran in CLAMP's wonderland (bwahaha! xD)
And about the perishing thing - killing off the main character is not something that CLAMP would definately not do, right?
And the “determination to gather feathers remained” was still there without “program” because of Syaoran-kun’s will, just in a different sense xP
If by "Syaoran-kun's will" you mean because he loved Sakura and wanted to get the feathers for her sake.. Well, C!Syaoran hadn't even met Sakura yet so how would FWR have known that he'd grow to love her and that would be his impetus to gather feathers? Even Eriol in CCS could not have predicted that Syaoran and Sakura would fall in love.
I was going to respond to this but my answer would be similar to my post a few back, as was yours right now. LoL. We’ve finally reached the point of repetition. Yay…?
Whoops o.O Had I said that already? Heh, sorry. My bad!
NM. Back to clothes…
I don’t think it was to happen in a different world because Sakura said herself that “the thing I saw in the dream will take place in this final battle” And I thought he did have it back, but because Sakura went for the feathers she became even stronger.
But when she said that and we saw the fragments of the future that she saw, it showed Syaoran and Kurogane looking shocked and a bit of her bellybutton with blood around her. So it must have been herself she saw getting stabbed.
We still don’t know what it actually means to have half of R!Syaoran in Syaoran-kun anyways. Because Eriol and Fujitaka-san were two pieces of Clow but they were certainly different beings.
They were reincarnations. Which is slightly different I think. R!Syaoran did not die to give away his half heart.
And yea! I did make myself a banner hehe and I didn't use paint! :P
Anyway, spoilers came out today. Looks like Syaoran got up from the floor *gasp* xD
Oh, and the Horitsuba comic! - I think there are translations out but I haven't read them yet but looking at the pictures I'm sure Syaoran's twin (R!Syaoran?) is the non-blushing, more serious (but smiling) one <3 <3
Seeing them together, he looks much more mature for some reason.. the eyes I think.
EDIT: Read it =D Lmao at the bath part!!
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We need to stop spamming this board
I blame you!
*chews on your leg*
Lol! So harsh! Poor R!Syao! I love him anyways xD
Eep >.< I didn’t mean for it to sound that way!!! *give R!Syaoran C!Syaoran to make up for it* xD
I don’t know…it just doesn’t seem to me that R!Syaoran’s character is going anywhere. There’s really nothing that makes him stand out. And maybe that’s because he’s all secretive, or maybe it’s because he’s not fan fiction-able x3 but whatever it is there’s just something missing in his character…right now. And there’s only 7 more volumes to go, meaning he has a possible 17, and in 5 he has shown nothing but a questionable relationship with Sakura and similar sword wielding abilities to CCS!Syaoran *saddened*
...Besides, he has R!Syaoran's heart in him so technically it's actually R!Syaoran in CLAMP's wonderland (bwahaha! xD)
*shakes head* I still don’t know how you can say the two are the same…
If by "Syaoran-kun's will" you mean
But he has a "Syaoran"’s soul. And since Syaoran’s soul goes with Sakura’s soul then he could have known.
I never understood that in CCS. Because they were saying they thought she should have considered Yukito/Yue most precious, but at the same time Clow Reed knew about himself in other worlds, and other people in other worlds, so he would have known that Syaoran and Sakura go together :/ Something smells funny about that...
But when she said that and we saw the fragments of the future that she saw, it showed Syaoran and Kurogane looking shocked and a bit of her bellybutton with blood around her. So it must have been herself she saw getting stabbed.
Unless that was what her sight was changed to since she had already made the choice to change the future.
They were reincarnations. Which is slightly different I think. R!Syaoran did not die to give away his half heart.
Don’t really think we can say that just yet. It’s CLAMP.
Oh, and the Horitsuba comic! - I think there are translations out but I haven't read them yet but looking at the pictures I'm sure Syaoran's twin (R!Syaoran?) is the non-blushing, more serious (but smiling) one <3 <3
Seeing them together, he looks much more mature for some reason.. the eyes I think.
EDIT: Read it =D Lmao at the bath part!!
Yea. That’s the “twin” smiling and shipping My!SyaoranxSakura *cackles*
[Question] If R!SxS doesn’t turn out canon, would you still support it…?
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We're not spamming, we're having a well thought out discussion/debate *nods*
there’s only 7 more volumes to go, meaning he has a possible 17
How did you get 17 from adding up 5 and 7?? xDD
in 5 he has shown nothing but a questionable relationship with Sakura and similar sword wielding abilities to CCS!Syaoran *saddened*
I'm upset too, that CLAMP has made him a side character ever since.. well ever since Clone left Acid Tokyo really.. He's only been the main focus of attention for a couple of chapters (the fight with C!Syaoran and when he fought Hikaru in Infinity) *sobs*.
But despite the fact that he's hardly said anything and has been constantly shoved to the side I still love him more than I ever loved the Clone for the whole 15 vols that he was in. I have a soft spot for R!Syaoran.. I get that nice feeling whenever I see him in a chapter.. And I really want to give him a big hug and cheer him up xD
...I also secretly wish R!Syaoran had been in the manga with the rest of the group since the beginning.... during the good happy times and all (even though that really wouldn't work for the plot lol). Sucks.
Clow Reed knew about himself in other worlds, and other people in other worlds, so he would have known that Syaoran and Sakura go together :/ Something smells funny about that...
Oooh, thats a really good point! I was thinking at first, "no because it was Eriol that said it, not Clow Reed" then I remembered that he had Clow Reed's memories..! Lolz
Sooo, what do you think - CLAMP made a mistake *le gasp* or it's something that'll prove to be very important to the plot later?
*shakes head* I still don’t know how you can say the two are the same…
Eh? Well they are the same in the sense that "Our!Syaoran" -IS- (half of) R!Syaoran but they're not the same personality wise. If they were I'd have no problem supporting ClonexSakura.
[Question] If R!SxS doesn’t turn out canon, would you still support it…?
Yes Probably.
Nowait. It depends..
Depends how CLAMP defend the pairing of ClonexSakura if they end up together. If C!Syaoran does somehow magically regain the half heart *cough*notlikely*cough* I would like to know how it makes sense for Sakura to love the Clone like this when he is not the full "Syaoran" - since there's the thing about soul mates so how can she love him when he only has half the soul?
I don't see him regaining the heart anyway. So the only other option is growing a heart, right? (unless there is another option we are told about later..) But if he does, like cryingforthemoon said before.. surely he won't be the same due to all the people he's murdered and all the destruction he caused. How would he live with it?
There's also the question of if he grew a heart would he have the same personality as "Our!Syaoran" or "R!Syaoran" or would he be like a completely new person? *is repeating herself from earlier -_-* I'd be interested to know your opinion on all of this.
If R!SyaoranxSakura turns out not to be canon, I wonder if CLAMP will go down the track of having him have his own Sakura.. If so I will be very annoyed. It just seems like a good way of getting rid of him if you ask me. It's not like I mind him having his own Sakura somewhere because it's still SakuSyao but if he did I'd have wanted to see their relationship development rather than the Clone's and Sakura's.
I supported S&S in CCS mainly because of Syaoran (Sakura too but he was my favourite character), so I support R!SyaoranxSakura in TRC because R!Syaoran acts more like CCS!Syaoran (not exactly but closer than the clone ever was).
Besides, I think they make a good team (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter144.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3496).. working together rather than with Cloney when it was all about him protecting her – hero/damsel in distress.
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Woah...
I must say, this thread is quite interesting! ;)
My opinion about this whole R!Syaoran and Clone Syaoran is not quite clear...
You see, it makes a bit of sense that Clone Syaoran and Sakura are destined to be together, no matter what. If not, then how would Yukito's predictions be wrong? Maybe he was referring to R! Syaoran? Either way, it seems that Sakura is decided to care for Clone Syaoran rather than real Syaoran...
Now, a good solution would be:
Clone Syaoran and R! Syaoran somehow turn into one, and then end up with Sakura in a hope lovey dovery ending!! =D
Although... somehow it sounds quite stupid when I typed it down... hehe
What do you? Is there a chance that R! Syaoran and Clone Syaoran fuse together or something of the sort?
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If not, then how would Yukito's predictions be wrong? Maybe he was referring to R! Syaoran?
Could be.. not really sure what to think of this bit yet.. When he said about being "the one to save Sakura" perhaps he just meant the one destined to find her feathers.. Anyway, this just made me think, if Yukito can predict the future then wouldn't he have known Syaoran was a clone? Surely he would have said something about it, even if not to Sakura, then Touya?
it seems that Sakura is decided to care for Clone Syaoran rather than real Syaoran...
Disagree xD
She did risk her own life to save him, remember :D
Haha, it's impossible to tell right now who she cares for the most, IMO. I'm personally hoping she's realised by now that the person she fell in love with all along is (..well, was) right infront of her *remembers the scene (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter139.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3362) when she saw "Our!Syaoran" in R!Syaoran*
Is there a chance that R! Syaoran and Clone Syaoran fuse together or something of the sort?
Dunno if you were referring to me or Mari but I'll answer you anyways heh. Hmmm, now what was it I said earlier.. *goes to find it*
Right, found it! I don't blame you if you never saw this because our conversation is rather long xDD
If C!Syaoran and R!Syaoran merged all that would be merging would be the bodies since Cloney has no heart to merge with R!Syaoran's. However, if he has grown his own heart then it could be one of two things:.
1. If the heart is the same as R!Syaoran's (same soul/personality) then merging would again produce the same person.
2. If it is different to R!Syaoran's (different soul/personality) it would produce a different person who was not "Syaoran" (and we don't want that!)
also this (about how the merging has happened already): Actually I would say the merging took place way back when R!Syaoran first gave his half heart away to the clone. In a sense, "Our Syaoran" is the result of R!Syaoran's half heart and Cloney's body merging.
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We're not spamming, we're having a well thought out discussion/debate *nods*
*hides behind you for cover from mods*
xD My shield~<3
How did you get 17 from adding up 5 and 7?? xDD
*dies of embarrassment*
...I also secretly wish R!Syaoran had been in the manga with the rest of the group since the beginning.... during the good happy times and all (even though that really wouldn't work for the plot lol). Sucks.
Ah, boo. I don’t. He’d make a more crazed psychotic feather nabber for one and two--my syaoran!cest dreams would all be destroyed D:
Sooo, what do you think - CLAMP made a mistake *le gasp* or it's something that'll prove to be very important to the plot later?
I blame it to seriously bad translation malfunction or just authors being authors *shrugs* Sometimes you go one way but it really suck so let’s go this way instead xDD
Eh? Well they are the same in the sense that "Our!Syaoran" -IS- (half of) R!Syaoran but they're not the same personality wise. If they were I'd have no problem supporting ClonexSakura.
See that’s because you’re making out the heart to be R!Syaoran, where I see it was a placeholder to an existence not the actual means there of. I mean, C!Syao right now in all his pycho clone glory is his own person with his own sadistic persona but he has no heart. Chii was her own even though she was a program. CLAMP has proved already that being split doesn’t = auto same person. And with the case of Eriol and Fujitaka, you would think it’s more likely that they would be the same because it was the soul that’s reincarnated. So. CLAMP. Yea.
On another note by you saying they’re not of similar personality proves they’re not one in the same Syaoran. Their inner-soul, how they fight and sacrifice themselves for Sakura’s happiness is still the same (because they’re both Syaorans) but with different reflections of being. Syaoran-kun always seemed softer to me in his way because Fujitaka-san was his father. He’s very Fujitaka-san like. Where CCS!Syaoran was more harsh because of however his life was spent…I always assumed it was because his father left and so he was left as man or something but…that’s OT >.>
Maybe I’m thinking too psychologically? Being it’s like the only reason they’re different is because of their environment they were raised in.
Yes Probably.
Honestly? I don’t see any “logic” coming from the end of this pairing. No, I don’t think his personality will be different. And no, I don’t see him growing a new heart. My slightly psychotic belief is that his being is still out there or else Sakura wouldn’t be fighting so damn hard for such a hopeless cause and CLAMP wouldn't be wasting their time writing about it. Not once has any character, even R!Syaoran, related to Syaoran-kun in the light of being a dead and hopeless cause. It’s been said the half of the heart won’t go back but there’s no finality and, more annoying, not speaking of whole truths. And for people who all love her, I’d hope they’d knock some sense into her.
CLAMP is playing it out that Syaoran-kun still lives. Whether that be he’s having mind!cest right now, or if he’s (highly unlikely) R!Syaoran…the boy, his importance, is not dead and has no air of being so.
*remembers the scene (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter139.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3362) when she saw "Our!Syaoran" in R!Syaoran*
And what eye is that? The right eye. Syaoran-kun’s original eye.
If R!SyaoranxSakura turns out not to be canon, I wonder if CLAMP will go down the track of having him have his own Sakura..
I don’t see another Sakura anywhere *looks* If there is then I assume there was and it had something to do with that whole “second time” thing. In which case we start smelling more sudden “memory wipes” *cough cough*
Besides, I think they make a good team (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter144.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3496).. working together rather than with Cloney when it was all about him protecting her – hero/damsel in distress.
Oh no. Why did you say that?! I love you so much Red-chan and now you’re putting yourself up there with the ignorant! *cries and clings to you*
[greatly] Short[ened] rant ahead.
I don’t understand why everyone says he overprotective and hero blah, blah, blah. We’ve seen through the memories that Sakura had been by his side, teaching him how to have a life, smile, and learning how to share a special happiness with someone. It’s like she’s been protecting him his whole life and now he’s trying to do the same. Since she’s lost her memories they’ve done the whole role reversal thing and he wants to show her the same kindness that Sakura showed him all those years…and you can see he’s struggling because he’s not Sakura and he can‘t just smile for the sake of making someone happy like she can. Just in the way she was struggling with his old role of group leader.
Also he still has that “commoner mentality” where it’s him fighting against the I’ll never be good enoughs. By putting himself in the place of her protector, it’s like he’s distancing himself from her. That “I can’t protect you without holding a sword. I can’t embrace you while holding a sword” thing comes to mind. He usually smiles to make her happy not because he feels happy. He goes to such lengths that at times it’s like he doesn’t care about himself. He’s willing to put everything he has on the line for her ( Even beyond her like in Outo when he thought Ses killed Fay)
And seriously. The two all but idolize each other.
And what’s with all this damsel crap?
Besides the fact that people are slightly pychotic for not only thinking she was up and ready to fight when she was sleeping but also having her precious person ripped from her heart....
I don’t know if it’s just my warped mind but to me it’s like Sakura knows that Syaoran is trying exclusively for her and so she doesn’t step in because it would hurt him more than it would to fight. Just in the same sense Sakura would have never jumped out in front of Syaoran-kun (or had to, because he wouldn’t go all emo on her -__-) like she did for R!Syaoran because to have to watch her put herself in such danger would have been an even great pain then to be struck by the rocks for Syaoran-kun.
And it’s sort of that way too because back in the tornado she told him about the wind instead of doing it. She’s helping him help her because that’s what he wants to do, that’s what would make Syaoran-kun happy and Sakura knows.
And I just want to sock all the people who are all “he’s so over protective!!”
WTF.
Piffle (when she took that flight for Tomoyo?! Syaoran-kun‘s blush and determined smile for her?!”). Country of Idols. He was happily smiling in the fact that she was able to and wanted to get in there and do things. He was scared for her but he trusted in Sakura just like she trusted him. And I think that’s why I love the couple so much.
Well, I actually have a great number of reasons why but they’re all fluffy and slightly along the lines of rotting your teeth out with candy sweetness so *spares everyone* ^^;;
[Curiosity] What instances make you love R!SyaoranxSakura? Or is just R!Syaoran you prefer over Syaoran-kun that makes you support them….?
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OMG I can't keep up with the discussion... T_T
But I still don't think CLAMP would let such a sweet and already-popular coupple to die out... Unless they die together? O_O
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LoL. That's what my friend is hoping for xD The whole dying in each others arm while covered in blood thing.
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OMG They're going to kill Syaoran and Sakura?! REVOLT! REVOLT!
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C!Syao right now in all his pycho clone glory is his own person with his own sadistic persona but he has no heart. Chii was her own even though she was a program.
If you are referring to Chobits!Chii I can't comment as I have never read Chobits (nor do I plan to). But if we think about Maru and Moro for example. They are soulless beings yet don't go around killing people that get in their way like C!Syaoran does (because they were not programmed the same way). So I don't think it's fair to compare him with the other created beings as they're all very different cases.
On another note by you saying they’re not of similar personality proves they’re not one in the same Syaoran. Their inner-soul, how they fight and sacrifice themselves for Sakura’s happiness is still the same (because they’re both Syaorans)
I agree they share the same personality aspects to a point. But it's only because they shared that half heart. It is the fact that R!Syaoran has the full heart that makes him different and gives aspects to his personality that C!Syaoran didn't have.
..Whilst at the same time he is the same because he has those similar aspects as well. They are the same but different.
My slightly psychotic belief is that his being is still out there or else Sakura wouldn’t be fighting so damn hard for such a hopeless cause and CLAMP wouldn't be wasting their time writing about it.
Well thats the thing.. It's not certain that she is. How long ago was it that she said about getting his heart back? Back in Tokyo, wasn't it? She may have had countless other visions and suchlike since then. How do we know she hasn't changed her mind? Time itself could have changed her mind.
CLAMP is playing it out that Syaoran-kun still lives.
I really can't see it being that easy. I just.. can't..
And what eye is that? The right eye. Syaoran-kun’s original eye.
So? :P I don’t get what that has anything to do with it. It’s just the way he was facing at the time and the side she happened to be seeing him from.
Besides, C!Syaoran’s right eye was not his original eye. That was the left one. His right eye was the one with the seal given to him by R!Syaoran.
I still don’t get the whole “going to the one who this right eye came from” bit though. As far as I know C!Syaoran never gave R!Syaoran an eye.
But it's probably best just to not to think about it. Thinking about eyes gives me headaches.
Not once has any character, even R!Syaoran, related to Syaoran-kun in the light of being a dead and hopeless cause.
R!Syaoran did insinuate it, though. In chap 123, he said "If the seal should be broken and despite all the time that had passed it wasn't enough and you were without a heart... If you continued to be only a created thing who acted wildly and forcefully, I would eliminate you." and he then got out his sword and used Raitei Shourai (so in order words he tried to destroy him).
I don’t see another Sakura anywhere *looks* If there is then I assume there was
Yeah.. thats what I meant.. was. It’s a perfectly good, plausible theory (although I don’t like it).. but that’s all it is.. a theory.. when people use it like its almost fact when so far there’s absolutely no proof whatsoever.. :BangHead: Just a good way of getting R!Syaoran out of the equation methinks.
Oh no. Why did you say that?! I love you so much Red-chan and now you’re putting yourself up there with the ignorant! *cries and clings to you*
Sorry T_T I didn’t mean it to come out like that *feels bad* Please forgive me?
I just meant that in contrast to the Clone and Sakura there was a much greater sense of teamwork between R!Syaoran and Sakura, I felt. I guess I just didn’t like the way C!Syaoran nearly always acted as her protector rather than her equal (which Sakura wanted him to be). And even though Sakura and C!Syaoran were like a team sometimes (e.g. the bunny-chan world during the wind bit like you said) the feeling just wasn’t the same as the feeling I got from that one single page with R!Syaoran and Sakura.. but I can’t explain what it was about it exactly that was different.. It just… felt more right…or something :/
Also about the damsel in distress bit.. I didn’t mean it as an insult to her.. I meant it as that was - on the most part - how I saw their relationship as a whole subsequent to her losing her memories.. I know it’s not her fault because she was too weak to fight and she did help out whenever she could. But argh lol I still sound like a jerk x.x It’s not even Sakura I have a problem with.. Just C!Syaoran. And so I do get annoyed at the prospect of ClonexSakura ending up together. To me, those two are just not meant to be together. This whole which Syaoran will she end up with thing is killing me!
Also.. it sounds really stupid saying it but I feel like Cloney has had his time now.. he’s had his 15 volumes of happiness.. and now it’s time for R!Syaoran to get his happiness.. to be able to be loved by the girl he fell in love with by watching her through his Clone’s eye. Why should he have to remain sad even now that he is free? ;_; Why should Cloney get the eternal happiness when R!Syaoran has never really had any? For all we know he could have had an awful past even before he was captured by FWR.
He usually smiles to make her happy not because he feels happy.
He shouldn't do that. Remember when Sakura told Fai in Infinity to not smile if he doesn't want to? And also when she said "at least let me worry" to little C!Syaoran? If he is not happy, he should not smile and pretend everything's fine when it's not. Unlike that, R!Syaoran is a very honest guy.. he doesn’t feel like smiling so he doesn’t. He allows her to see how he's truely feeling and that’s a more truthful relationship, don’t you think? No good can ever come from lying or pretending.
Btw, just finished holic the other day. New OTP yays! Watanuki x Kudakitsune FTW! They are so in love! xD (I’m only half joking)
*ahem* So.. yes, I feel a little wiser now after reading. I have a few thoughts on it relating to Syaoran and Sakura but maybe I should leave it for another post since this one is already getting too long.
[Curiosity] What instances make you love R!SyaoranxSakura? Or is just R!Syaoran you prefer over Syaoran-kun that makes you support them….?
On the most part it is due to my love of R!Syaoran, yes, since from Sakura’s side of things so far she’s not shown many signs of affection for him so I couldn’t really love the pairing from that.
As for instances that make me love it.. well, I have quite a few of those. I love the bit where Sakura calls R!Syaoran “Syaoran-kun” for example and he blushes whilst she smiles at him - the first real signs of caring from her part. I also liked the part when he didn’t want her to leave (even though you didn’t like that part) and the rock moment (really beautiful and sad).
There’s the situation that I love more too.. The total sadness of the situation. The way it feels like they can never be. The way R!Syaoran feels like he has to live up to the Clone that went before him (even though ironically he himself is the original).. all the guilt.. the tension.. the emo-ness that happens.. I weep for you Syaoran-kun!!
And I like the way that despite the awfully sad situation and the fact that he obviously cares so much for her, he doesn’t try to force his feelings on her or anything like that because he doesn’t want to hurt her even more. This again links to what CCS Syaoran said to CCS Tomoyo about not confessing to her due to her rejection (and I can see Kurogane being the one to get him out of that hole in TRC in the same way Tomoyo did in CCS. He already has done so to an extent).
Then there’s the way their bodies clearly yearn for each other (illustrated when Sakura’s leg buckles and she falls directly into his arms. Coincidence? Nah.) Their hearts ache but their heads tell them they shouldn’t be together (because he’s not “him” and she probably feels she’d be betraying C!Syaoran by loving R!Syaoran instead, perhaps).
The way he always slips up.. calling her “Sakura” instead of “Hime”.. And you know what? I love slip ups because they are proof of unconscious feeling. CCS Syaoran did it too - called her “Sakura” without thinking when she fell down that hole.
Also remember when R!Syaoran instinctively wiped Sakura’s tears away in Tokyo – I think this action alone is proof that he cares for her very very much.. the way he did it was so gentle –one of my favourite moments. Honestly if he only saw her like a sister he wouldn’t have done it the way he did. He was so at ease with doing so.. so comfortable with it.. and it was only as soon as she woke up that he became uncomfortable around her due to the way she responded to him.
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LoL. That's what my friend is hoping for xD The whole dying in each others arm while covered in blood thing.
Only problem I have with that possibility is that it kind of kills the possibility of later fanfics. XD
And the only contribution I will make in this R! vs C! x Sakura debate is that R!Syaoran seems only to remind her of how much she misses her Syaoran, the clone. Also, if Sakura cared about R!Syaoran over C!Syaoran, she wouldn't have left R!Syaoran. If R!Syaoran was the one she had come to care about, she would've just made sweet monkey love to him, and he could cry with joy like a good little uke all throughout, and then they could both go dispose of awful, evil C!Syaoran in the morning.
...Or something. :\
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R!Syaoran seems only to remind her of how much she misses her Syaoran, the clone.
R!Syaoran reminds her of her Syaoran? Umm.. but.. R!Syaoran actually -IS- her Syaoran. He is the one she originally fell in love with. Since it was his heart in C!Syaoran all along. It was only in C!Syaoran's body temporarily.
In fact, it's not just the heart that's shared. He even shares the same memories as the clone (well, okay, plus extra ones from before he was captured). So he can’t just remind her.. He is.
And I don't see how she could miss her Syaoran, either. He never went anywhere ^__^ Everything she loved about about C!Syaoran/her Syaoran is in R!Syaoran RIGHT NOW.
The only question I see is whether or not she has realised all this yet. Sakura’s thoughts/feelings right now are a bit of a mystery.
Also, if Sakura cared about R!Syaoran over C!Syaoran, she wouldn't have left R!Syaoran. If R!Syaoran was the one she had come to care about, she would've just made sweet monkey love to him, and he could cry with joy like a good little uke all throughout
Lol. Greeat. I now have that image stuck in my mind xD
But I have to disagree. She left in order to change the future – and I think that’s reason enough to leave. It doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t care about him as much or anything. If it had been C!Syaoran there in place of R!Syaoran I imagine she would have done the same thing.
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Only problem I have with that possibility is that it kind of kills the possibility of later fanfics. XD
…You underestimate the power of fan brats and their love of reincarnations…>p
They are soulless beings yet don't go around killing people that get in their way like C!Syaoran does. The Mokona's were created things too yet it's obvious they really care about everyone. So I don't think it's fair to compare him with the other created beings as they're all very different cases.
Oh, I love it when you fight for my causes with your eyes closed! xD
Exactly as you say “created.” Mokonas were created by Clow and Yuuko a certain way just as C!Syaoran was “created” by FWR a certain way~
Well thats the thing.. It's not certain that she is. How long ago was it that she said about getting his heart back? Back in Tokyo, wasn't it? She may have had countless other visions and suchlike since then. How do we know she hasn't changed her mind? Time itself could have changed her mind.
“She hasn’t said anything” So again, you fight both sides of a cause. Lurve.
But I think it’ her actions and motives in this case that speak louder than words. After all Yuuko said that Sakura is waiting for C!Syaoran in that dream and that is why she choose that place to go to. Of all places she wished, that was the one she took her 50/50 chance on.
I really can't see it being that easy. I just.. can't.. CLAMP didn't make C!Syaoran a heartless Clone for nothing just so that he could become his old self again
We shall certainly see…
R!Syaoran did insinuate it, though.
Insinuation. Common device to throw off reader and make them think what they want. Just as, you mentioned, everyone believed they knew exactly what Sakura was about back in Infinity.
Sorry T_T I didn’t mean it to come out like that *feels bad* Please forgive me?
*sigh* I’m so lenient with you…. xDDD
I’ll resist the urge to take any of your eyes.
Humorous how we’re ultimately facing each other over a pairing…aren’t these boards usually used for telling why we love them? Not talking about their existence and legitimacy? LoL.
I just meant that in contrast to the Clone and Sakura there was a much greater sense of teamwork between R!Syaoran and Sakura, I felt.
This is exactly what I don’t like about them. It’s outer work (surface value, almost only for the sake of a nice panel of them) but there was a deeper sense of bonding and understanding between Syaoran-kun and Sakura that R!Syaoran and her haven’t even come close to having. ((by the way, back when we were talking about visions, and when Sakura entered the arena and touched Fay’s hand and you thought she might have had another “sight” …do you think she’s been able to get pieces of R!Syaoran’s life in the same way…? Some looks gave the impression…))
And where was the team work and the trust when he kept grabbing her? He doesn’t know her, it’s as simple as that. Syaoran-kun could let her be her own person because he was with her in a way that was more than watching.
I guess I just didn’t like the way C!Syaoran nearly always acted as her protector rather than her equal (which Sakura wanted him to be)
It was one of the dynamics they were trying to overcome in the relationship, though. It’d be very stale and unreal if Syaoran-kun believed he, a parentless commoner, could be with a Princess and so he loves her in a way that he‘s able to. People seem to skip over the facts that it would just never happen in real life, mostly because they see Syaoran and Sakura and it’s all “Oh! Together no matter what!!” Sad to see you skipped over it too…
Also.. it sounds really stupid saying it but I feel like Cloney has had his time now.. he’s had his 15 volumes of happiness..
*buries face in hands*
You know I think what you just said is made of so many levels of wrong so I’ll just add R!Syaoran takes the face of someone who lost everything according to his will opposed to someone who never had anything to begin with. If there truly was nothing in his life then he wouldn’t be able to even approach the witch because he would have nothing worthwhile and he wouldn’t have the motivation to. R!Syaoran is a perfectly full person and I only see him as a common friend who cares for everyone.
He shouldn't do that. Remember when Sakura told Fai in Infinity to not smile if he doesn't want to? And also when she said "at least let me worry" to little C!Syaoran? If he is not happy, he should not smile and pretend everything's fine when it's not. Unlike that, R!Syaoran is a very honest guy.. he doesn’t feel like smiling so he doesn’t. He allows her to see how he's truely feeling and that’s a more truthful relationship, don’t you think? No good can ever come from lying or pretending.
Now this is just very humorous to me!! *giggles*
You say you don’t like the fact Syaoran-kun should only smile to make her happy yet you DO like the fact that R!Syaoran keeps his distance and doesn’t press his love because it would upset her. *burst into giggles* It’s the same thing!! Rather hard to fight against motives of a person who shares a soul, ne? Even going into your CCS!Syaoran, he smiled for Sakura and held back his love (oh! Dishonesty? Just what you accuse Syaoran-kun of…?) to makes sure that Sakura is not troubled over the rejection.
On another point entirely Syaoran-kun was honest with her in Clow, because he was her precious friend then (the whole lonely scene…?). He can no longer be that person and he HAS to hold himself back from being the one in her forbidden memories because she will pass out at any mention. It’s really the saddest thing that the two cannot discuss their feelings and are forced to walk on tip toe around each other and YET---here’s a part I love---despite all these boundaries and barriers they were still able to fall in love with each other on a while different field and hold a new relationship together once more!
Btw, just finished holic the other day. New OTP yays! Watanuki x Kudakitsune FTW! They are so in love! xD (I’m only half joking)
LOL. xDD
As for instances that make me love it..
I don’t think it’s right for me to argue any of your reasons (you should know by not I’m ready to say so many things xD) since they are your true thoughts instead of theories like we’ve been aimlessly going on about so I’ll just say I do understand why such things would make you support the idea <3 Opposed to the first time someone talked of a R!SyaoranxSakura possibility and I seriously thought it was a crack pairing ^^;; Which is why I’m going all 20-questions on you because I never thought of it before it was mentioned and don’t understand it to be honest.
OT but have you been reading TRC since it was first serialized too? Or did you come in at a later point in the story?
Random = Lol. My spell check has the term “C!Syaoran” in it for some reason and it was trying to replace R!Syaoran with it…My computer doesn‘t like R!Syaoran….>.>
*hugs* I’m going to be gone for two months starting Sunday, Red-chan!!! ;_;
I’ll PM you about it later~
*resists urge to comment on your comments to Suu*
Though I will say you go against you own ideas by saying he’s the same but saying that the things Syaoran-kun does you don’t like :/
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Going to put my first thoughts about Holic that I didn't put in my last post:
1. What Yuuko said about the egg… She said “something that is meant to be one is now two” (she might have actually said this in TRC too cant remember -.-) and was also referring to the Syaorans at the same time. And then she said it was “that person’s (FWR) fault”. “Changing other people’s paths… collecting souls… breaking the world’s order…” My conclusion = Cloney was never supposed to exist since it is stated that Syaoran was meant to be one, and that by creating a clone FWR has interfered and changed paths.
But the whole interfering thing doesn’t fit with the “everything is hitsuzen” rule. Explain plz CLAMP.
2. Also those wing things which attached to that girl. I got the impression that Fei Wang created them.. Interesting.. Could this be related to the tube scene and the wings growing on Sakura? So will she lose control of her emotions once they grow on her back? But then there’s one thing I don’t understand.. the wings are supposed to suck out the soul from the body, right? Then why are they actually growing on Sakura’s soul itself? Hmm..
3. Finally, why was Yuuko in another dimension when R!Syaoran visited her shop to go to where C!Syaoran was? Why was she protecting herself from him? Or had she just lost her umbrella and didn’t want to get her hair wet?
“She hasn’t said anything” So again, you fight both sides of a cause. Lurve.
Eh?
Insinuation. Common device to throw off reader and make them think what they want.
Maybe so. But it still seems pretty crystal clear that that’s what he was trying to do if you ask me. He said what I quoted (about killing him if he continued to be a created thing acting widly and forcefully) WHILST getting his sword out and then attempting to kill him. It’s not so much an assumption on my part - it is the same as saying “I plan to kill you now because you are still the heartless feather-hunting thing you were created to be”. Moreover, he seemed perfectly ready to kill him and would have done so had Sakura not screamed to them to stop.
We are never going to agree ^__^
So basically we can conclude that I think C!Syaoran=doomed & he can never go back to how he was.
Whilst you think C!Syaoran=grown his own heart? (but it’s not there at the moment or something? I confess I’m a little confused exactly what your theory is actually)
aren’t these boards usually used for telling why we love them? Not talking about their existence and legitimacy? LoL.
Well it is a general syaoran x sakura thread, right? :D
It’s outer work (surface value, almost only for the sake of a nice panel of them)
O.O
((by the way, back when we were talking about visions, and when Sakura entered the arena and touched Fay’s hand and you thought she might have had another “sight” …do you think she’s been able to get pieces of R!Syaoran’s life in the same way…? Some looks gave the impression…))
Do you mean seeing parts of R!Syaoran's life when she touched him or when she touched Fai?
If you meant the former, no I didn't.. but interesting idea. I got the impression that she got a vision from touching Fai in Tokyo due to his large amount of power, though? But thats just the impression I got. And I don't think R!Syaoran has fully regained his power back yet (otherwise he would have been the one to be stabbed by Fai).
And where was the team work and the trust when he kept grabbing her?
Nothing to do with trust. He doesn't know how to communicate his feelings so he ends up doing things like that in an attempt to tell her that he cares about her/doesn't want her to go etc
People seem to skip over the facts that it would just never happen in real life
Um.. Since when has TRC ever reflected what happens in real life? If so, then why do people have swords coming out of their hands, and memories appear in the form of feathers? >.>
And btw you saying about the relationship being unreal made me realise that that’s exactly what I don’t like about their relationship. It felt very much like a fairy-tale type relationship. (even though the manga itself is of the fantasy genre the relationships/characters themselves should not also be fantasy-like). And even though they did face mini hardships like the whole “woe! I’m a commoner and she’s a princess!!” and “woe! She’ll never remember me!!” you knew that ultimately everything would be alright anyway.
It’s what I don’t like about C!Syaoran too. I don't mean to insult but he's very much the “ideal guy”.. so much so that it’s unrealistic. I’m sure you’d disagree with me, though. R!Syaoran is just more human than C!Syaoran to me. He’s more believable as a character.
Just out of interest, which do you prefer - CCS!Syaoran or C!Syaoran? And I forbid you from answering "both"!
You say you don’t like the fact Syaoran-kun should only smile to make her happy yet you DO like the fact that R!Syaoran keeps his distance and doesn’t press his love because it would upset her. *burst into giggles* It’s the same thing!!
Not quite the same. I meant about him pretending everything is okay when it’s not – and that’s what I don’t like.
I seriously thought it was a crack pairing ^^;; Which is why I’m going all 20-questions on you because I never thought of it before it was mentioned and don’t understand it to be honest.
So do you still think it's crack?
R!SyaoranxSakura has just as many valid reason for ending up as the canon pairing as C!SyaoranxSakura does IMO.. Besides, if CLAMP wasn’t playing out the whole which Syaoran will end up with Sakura thing then why would they do splash pages like this (http://groups.msn.com/TsubasaReservoirChroniclesOnlineManga/chapter145.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3506)
OT but have you been reading TRC since it was first serialized too? Or did you come in at a later point in the story?
I came in much later. But I did actually discover TRC just after it’s 5th or so chapter was out in Japan. But back then all I could find was raws. Besides that I didn’t really understand what it was either so I just kinda forgot about it for several years. Then later I discovered the anime, and started watching not really finding it all that great but since it was Syaoran and Sakura I watched it anyway. Then it was around the time the Tokyo arc was ending that I started to read the manga and then the very first chapter that I followed along with everyone else was the very first Infinity one. So I haven’t really been following it that long.
But wow you’ve been reading it since it was first serialized?
*hugs* I’m going to be gone for two months starting Sunday, Red-chan!!! ;_;
2 Months???! :'( K, I'll reply in the PM.
On the other hand since I’m going back to college in just over a week, I'll have less time to spend online anyway. Not only that but I think our debate is very much going around in circles because I've run out of arguments and have nothing much else to add so I keep repeating myself lol. Hopefully by the time you come back though there will be more info.
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Sorry for double posting (almost 2 months later lol) but the damn thing won’t let me modify my last post anymore, which is so annoying!
Basically.. I just randomly read over what I said and, ugh, I officially don’t know wth I’m talking about -_- ..I contradicted myself (again) when I said about the whole unreal relationship thing. I’m such a moron >< Just ignore that entire paragraph xD
..I noticed my grammar was also bad. I should really check over what I’ve written properly before I post..