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CLAMP's Famous Works => Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE => Topic started by: Ruby Chan on May 02 2005, 02:59 pm

Title: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on May 02 2005, 02:59 pm
Who exactly is Ashura? I know that no one knows anything about his Tsubasa character, but I'm sure I've seen him in another of CLAMP's works somewhere...

He's def in soemthing else! I have a wallpaper of him and Kamui that was released before Tsubasa came out! If anyone has any clue, I'd b very grateful. If not, what do you think of his TRC character? Good? Evil?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: pinklacus on May 02 2005, 03:33 pm
He's a character from RG Veda. I read that manga before but it was quite confusing. Actually, there are 2 Ashura. One is the father Ashura who appeared in the 1st epsiode/manga with fye coming out of the water. The second one is the prince Ashura who appeared in book 9 of TRC. Not really sure but I think the prince Ashura should be a good person.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Kay Hearts on May 03 2005, 10:01 am
I haven´t read the manga, but as a huge fan of Fai´s I´ve tried searching for info about him too and basically I found the same pinclaus said. Though I think Ashura (which in RGVeda is either girl or boy) is kind of like Kamui in X, meaning that he can either be good or bad in the ending. At least that was the idea I got.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Jill Yuki on May 03 2005, 10:16 am
Ugh, yeah, the Ashura's are pretty confusing, it took me forever to find out which one was which.... >_<. But anyway, there's this girl who writes these really good essays about fai here: http://penny-dreadful.nu/blueskies/atlantis.php. I think their relationship was...a little romantic and if Ashura-ou (dude in water) wakes up...I wonder what Fai will do...

But anyway, I'm going to start a fanfic on FF.net saying my view about what Fai and Ashura were together before Tsubasa. ^.^
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Kay Hearts on May 03 2005, 10:44 am
:greengrin: love that page, it´s like the best Fai shrine I´ve seen, thanks ^^
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hira on May 03 2005, 02:18 pm
One way to PHYSICALLY differentiate Asura and Asura- ou is that the Little Asura would always tie his/her hair back, while Asura- ou leaves it alone, plus Asura- ou has much more masculine feature on the face and is more serene- looking (He is also in the sleeping state in RG- veda, and suffers so much more than the he in Celes world.  CLAMP deserves an A in Biology for what they drew in RG- Veda).
And, yeah... I suspect that Fai and Asura- ou has some kind of "romantic" relationship, too... Asura- ou has always been portrayed with another man for some reason...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: scarecrow_wingz on May 03 2005, 07:19 pm
there's a second ashura in volume 9???? what was his character... ooooh...he was that god...

that's interesting...haha...maybe fye betrayed him
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on May 04 2005, 12:26 am
off topic:
during the opening, there's a sleeping image of Ashura... it just reminds me of Elrond from LOTRs.. *lol*
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on May 04 2005, 03:48 am
Quote from: scarecrow_wingz on May 03 2005, 07:19 pm
that's interesting...haha...maybe fye betrayed him

I was wondering if maybe this was a bit of CLAMP shonen-ai....afertall, Fye doesn't seem scared of Ashura, just pained by his memory...if they fought, and Fye had to seal Ashura to prevent himself being killed, then he might have wanted to leave his world so that he could try to escape the guilt....

I think that Ashura will def appear in TRC soon, and his past with Fye will be revealed....
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hira on May 04 2005, 06:39 am
Whatever happened between them, it made Fye has a suicidal tendency... In RG Veda, Asura- ou asks Taiseiten (is that his name?) to eat him in order to prevent tragedy happening to Asura in the future, even if it means Taiseiten will become a dictator hated by thousands...
Maybe Asura- ou in Celes also asks Fai to seal him up underwater, despite that it means to betray the country and being written in history as a villain.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on May 04 2005, 06:41 am
Suicidal tendency?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hira on May 04 2005, 07:29 am
Quote from: Ruby Chan on May 04 2005, 06:41 am
Suicidal tendency?
In Outo, Kurogane said that he has killed those who tried to kill him, and he has also killed those who tried to kill the one he tried to protect with his life... He has killed too many, so he finds no need to sugarcoat the fact, but the kind of people he hates the most is the kind who still has a gasp of breath left, yet unwilling to live.
Fai says, "Then I must be the type you hate the most..."
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Jill Yuki on May 07 2005, 11:15 am
Nah, I don't think Fai has a suicidal tendancy. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in Tsubasa at all. He'd be dead. Ooh, if you want, I'l give you all a link to my story when I finish the first chapter. Grarr, I want to tell you all what my views are, but alas, that would take....most of the night...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Kay Hearts on May 07 2005, 02:24 pm
I still find unclear Fai´s desire to live. If he really is suicidal then he would have killed himself in the first place intead of fleeing to Yuuko´s and asking for help to travel to other worlds, but also he doesn´t seem too willing to preserve himself unharmed when battles happen. I just see him as some angsty person I guess.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on May 07 2005, 07:46 pm
I agree, I don't think Fai would actually kill himself....he is jusy a little relaxed about saving himself. He's kinda stuck in the middle...

But we're going off topic here. Perhaps someone should set up a Fai topic.....

This has been confusing me....in the first book, Chii refers to Fai as 'King'....but then HE refers to Ashura as king. So who, exactly is the king? Or is Fai lying when he says that he's just a magician, and he shared the throne with Ashura - if there really was a bit of shonen-ai between them, then they could have been like king and queen...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Jill Yuki on May 07 2005, 11:29 pm
I haveno idea! Maybe Chii just though when Ashura went down to sleep, Fai was the new king. I can't WAIT to finish my story.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on May 15 2005, 11:57 am
***Nah, I don't think Fai has a suicidal tendancy.***

I think he does somewhat, in that he won't really defend himself.
I think that's shown by the chapter opening picture where Fai is high up on the ledge of the clock tower, leaning forward.

I think Fai feels extreme guilt because of what happened in his country before he left. I'm thinking too that Fai was very close to Ashura. Maybe Ashura became too powerful as king and started abusing his power. Maybe the people of the country rose up against him and Fai defended the castle and Ashura even though he knew Ashura was wrong. He then felt such guilt that he sealed Ashura away as not to hurt anyone else.

Fai seems to be the most lonely and the most guilt ridden.
Thus, the last person he cares for is himself.

I'm wondering what will come of Fai and Kurogane's friendship.
Especially when Ashura wakes and comes after Fai.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on May 15 2005, 12:01 pm
***This has been confusing me....in the first book, Chii refers to Fai as 'King'....but then HE refers to Ashura as king.***

Hmmm, I wondered that myself.
Maybe Fai displaced Ashura as king when he sealed him away?
Or at least in Chii's eyes.

Maybe Fai created Chii out of loneliness for company after he sealed Ashura away?
Hopefully we'll find all this out.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on June 07 2005, 03:21 am
Hey, new Ashura! That king form the other world, Ashura-ou! You know, the one with the statue?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on June 07 2005, 07:11 am
***Hey, new Ashura! That king form the other world, Ashura-ou! You know, the one with the statue?***

Hmm?
You mean chapter 58?
I looked through RG Veda the other day and saw him as a baby.
It was cute. Haven't really read it though.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: satsuki-chan on July 12 2005, 12:31 am
Quote from: Ruby Chan on May 07 2005, 07:46 pm
This has been confusing me....in the first book, Chii refers to Fai as 'King'....but then HE refers to Ashura as king. So who, exactly is the king? Or is Fai lying when he says that he's just a magician, and he shared the throne with Ashura - if there really was a bit of shonen-ai between them, then they could have been like king and queen...

AHA! you know in the relationships section on that Fai shrine from above? it does say that Fai could of been Ashura's rival for the throne... is this theory sinking in?...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on July 12 2005, 03:48 am
Hmm...I read it, but I didn't really like the theory. I can't picture Fai being anyone's rival. I think that if he was the king with Ashura, they shared the throne.

I've got a new theory about Ashura now. I think he was nicer when he was younger, so maybe Fai became close friends with him, then something more? But maybe when Ashura became king, the politics and strategies got to him, and he became horrible and cruel?

Maybe Fai's running because he helped dethrone Ashura in an uprising.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on July 12 2005, 06:57 am
***I've got a new theory about Ashura now. I think he was nicer when he was younger, so maybe Fai became close friends with him, then something more? But maybe when Ashura became king, the politics and strategies got to him, and he became horrible and cruel?***

That's what I think.
He became horrible and then used anyone he could for whatever purpose.
Perhaps then a feather came to be in his grasp and he became even more powerful.
Perhaps Fai knows or suspects even now that somehow Ashura has a feather or that a feather will be what wakes him?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Pikari on July 12 2005, 10:46 am
I was thinking (bad idea, yes) and had a little theory. I've only read the first chapter of RG Veda, but I know there are 2 Ashuras - the king, and his son, who both have different appearances. The son was the one they met in Shurano country, yet from Fai's expressions, he recognized him. So it makes me wonder if both Ashura's weren't on Fai's world, and perhaps that's part of what happened. Maybe... the younger Ashura rebelled against his father to take the throne and Fai, either on purpose or by accident, killed him with his magic. And King Ashura got pissed at Fai for killing his son, so Fai freaked out and sealed him. But now he feels guilty and has vowed never to use his magic because of it. Or something... like that. *sighs* If I didn't have so many fanfics going right now.... *reads over the thread getting so many ideas* ^^;;

I don't picture Fai ever being a king... it doesn't seem to fit. I do think King Ashura became cruel and cold... that's just the impression I get, but in spite of it Fai still holds an attachment to him, out of either love or loyalty, but he's still afraid of Ashura and what he might do.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: satsuki-chan on July 14 2005, 11:49 am
meh... liast night i read the whole RG Veda series... and curiously, fai never appeared (if RG Veda is 10 vol.s long, then yes, he didnt appear). though the stargazer guy called kujaku reminded me of him...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on July 14 2005, 11:54 am
Quote
meh... liast night i read the whole RG Veda series... and curiously, fai never appeared (if RG Veda is 10 vol.s long, then yes, he didnt appear).

Fai is an original character not from any other series.
I've been checking out RG Veda too, I'm curious about that Ashura and how he may act.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Okamirei on July 14 2005, 12:08 pm
I'm really confused in RG Veda e-e ...is Ashura a girl or a boy? They used 'him', but Ashura looks like a girl...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on July 14 2005, 01:15 pm
Quote
I'm really confused in RG Veda e-e ...is Ashura a girl or a boy? They used 'him', but Ashura looks like a girl...

There are two Ashuras that I know of in RG Veda and both are boys.
There is the Ashura that Yasha finds as a baby. That's the same Ashura from the world in TRC (book eight and nine I think). The one that dresses girl-like.

Then there is Ashura-ou, the King.
That is the Ashura that is King in VG Veda and the Ashura that Fai has sealed away.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Okamirei on July 14 2005, 01:22 pm
ah, I see. The Ashura in RG Veda looks so much like a girl, in the 9th volume of TRC too!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on July 14 2005, 01:35 pm
Quote
The Ashura in RG Veda looks so much like a girl, in the 9th volume of TRC too!

He sure does!
Hmmm, maybe he needs to be on my crossdressing list, lol!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: satsuki-chan on July 14 2005, 09:32 pm
but kujaku said 'ashura' (i dont know which) defied the heavens/path of the stars and was born genderless.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on July 15 2005, 03:17 am
Yes! He was definitely genderless in RG Veda, but his companions chose to address him as it.

Has anyone heard any rumours about the next appearence of an Ashura character in TRC?

And an idea here....maybe Ashura was the good guy, and it was Fai who was the bad guy? LOL
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Pikari on July 15 2005, 04:20 am
Quote from: Ruby Chan on July 15 2005, 03:17 am
And an idea here....maybe Ashura was the good guy, and it was Fai who was the bad guy? LOL
That would be interesting! I have a feeling there will be several more shades of grey.

Quote
but kujaku said 'ashura' (i dont know which) defied the heavens/path of the stars and was born genderless.
CLAMP sure has a thing for those gender-ambiguous characters, don't they? Such as the angels and demons in Wish.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on July 15 2005, 06:31 am
Quote
Yes! He was definitely genderless in RG Veda, but his companions chose to address him as it.

Ah, jeez, I must have missed that!
Gomen ne!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hira on July 24 2005, 12:44 pm
I think you guys kinda have it all mixed up.

The father is called Asura-ou, but the child was only Asura because by the time he wakes up from the illusory forest, the entire Asura has already been massacred.
Asura-ou foresaw that his son will become the god of destruction and hopes that he can defy fate and allows his son to be born without going to that path. 
However, in defying fate, Asura-ou brought about the end of his people as his son is cursed to be born genderless so there will be no more Asura after that.
The one in Fai's world is the father and the one in Shurano is the son.
CLAMP let Asura be Asura-ou's son, even though Asura is genderless (he's supposed to be a boy)... Ten-ou even called the genderless Asura "Onii-chan" when Heaven and Earth finally crumbled.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: ExMiraclelight on August 01 2005, 09:53 pm
He is a good person ??
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hira on August 04 2005, 07:52 am
Um... You can't determine if a guy is good or bad in most of the CLAMP work.  The only ones I've met and knew for sure was Sashi from RG Veda, but everyone else has his or her own problem, so readers can't put blames.  (Pleeeeease let me have a reason to hate Sei-chan for once, CLAMP, pleeeeease)
There's nothing being said about what Ashura-ou in Celes World did that makes Fai seals him up at the bottom of the sea.  Maybe it's just a promise they made together out of good intention like RG-Veda, or maybe it's Fai's emotional problem due to Ashura's abuse (? Not sure)
I think it's likely Fai's problem, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Okamirei on August 04 2005, 08:03 am
which Ashura are we talking about? the one in the 9 and 10th volume or the one in Fai's world?  :sweatdrop:
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on August 04 2005, 08:06 am
Hira said Ashura-ou, so I'm assuming she means King Ashura from Fai's Land, not the Ashura with the long ears!

Quote
There's nothing being said about what Ashura-ou in Celes World did that makes Fai seals him up at the bottom of the sea.  Maybe it's just a promise they made together out of good intention like RG-Veda, or maybe it's Fai's emotional problem due to Ashura's abuse

Actually this has been discussed a ton in different threads.
My own idea is this:

Fai was the King's wizard and lover. Ashura had always been extremely controlling and
somewhat violent and such, but I think maybe he suddenly became worse, actually using
his power for evil, getting out of control. I believe he tricked Fai into doing many things that
he is now extremely guilt-ridden about, so doesn't care much for his own life at this point.
I think that Fai did love Ashura, hence the look on his face as he leaves Celes and Ashura behind.
I think too though, that Fai feared Ashura very much, and is afraid of what will happen when Ashura shows up. I don't think he's afraid of being killed, but perhaps something else.........perhaps controlled, or reminded or something along those lines.

The bodies of the men laying dead around Celes. I have a suspicion Fai may have had something to do with that. Perhaps trying to protect Ashura.
That could be one thing he's feeling guilt over. That he killed for Ashura, when in reality Ashura was becoming evil. Perhaps Ashura has a feather.
I also think Fai sealed away Ashura instead of killing him, perhaps not being able to kill him because of the feelings he still had for him, even after all he'd done, or sealed him out of self defence.
I'm not sure about that one though, because I think at that point Fai would have probably let Ashura kill him. And Fai's markings. I suspect they were put there by Ashura. But I don't know.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: satsuki-chan on August 07 2005, 07:37 pm
-clap clap clap- then where does chi come in?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Sakaki on August 07 2005, 07:54 pm
Quote
-clap clap clap- then where does chi come in?

Perhaps Fai created Chii out of loneliness, as a companion.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on August 08 2005, 12:15 am
I always thought that maybe when Fai fist arrived in the castle, Ashura was a nice guy, so he didn't need any other people. But when Ashura turned nasty, I think Chii was created by Fai because he had no real friends, and he was being neglected by Ashura.

Actually, that's part of the fanfic I'm writing.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on August 23 2005, 03:38 pm
Kya! All this Ashura-ou stuff is so confusing! Please CLAMP, give us an answer! *cries* But was anyone else annoyed in (I think vol. 9) when Kuro asked Fai about the Ashura they saw (Fai's Ashura's son) and before he answered, they were interrupted? And they've been in Piffle World so long, it's like we'll NEVER get any Ashura-related info! (Someone on here said something about Ashura maybe getting a feather and rising into power because of it... what an interesting theory... Fanfic anyone?)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on September 01 2005, 05:58 am
I had him HAVE a feather in my fic, but your idea about the rise to power is interesting....hmmm. Although, Fai is so often thought of as a tool to the Seresu king, sometimes I think about writing one where Ashura rose to power after meeting Fai....because HE was a feather.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 06:03 am
Quote from: Ruby Chan on September 01 2005, 05:58 am
I had him HAVE a feather in my fic, but your idea about the rise to power is interesting....hmmm. Although, Fai is so often thought of as a tool to the Seresu king, sometimes I think about writing one where Ashura rose to power after meeting Fai....because HE was a feather.

Oooh! So you mean what if Fai Fai has a feather, maybe? How creepy that would be! Eeeek! That would mean Fai Fai is evillll! Wouldn't that be so weird if he's had a feather the whole time?!?!  (I know that wouldn't happen, but it would make another interesting fic, wouldn't it?)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on September 01 2005, 06:07 am
I meant that FAI was the feather.  :sweatdrop: I thought that maybe Ashura would have realised the potential, and turned him into a human form, so that no one would become suspicious and try and take the feather away from him......I wondered whether the fact that Fai's tattoo was of a phoenix -  a BIRD, it had tied him to the other feathers somehow.....
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:10 am
Fai's Tatoo was a bird in the shap of his Kudan .. Wings spread with its head to the left ... ( Me thinks )

I would be strang seeing that though .. Think of poor poor .. Kuro-mu ! Seeing Fai turn into A feather... ! OMG ! I'd cry !
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 06:11 am
Quote from: Ruby Chan on September 01 2005, 06:07 am
I meant that FAI was the feather. :sweatdrop: I thought that maybe Ashura would have realised the potential, and turned him into a human form, so that no one would become suspicious and try and take the feather away from him......I wondered whether the fact that Fai's tattoo was of a phoenix - a BIRD, it had tied him to the other feathers somehow.....

OH MY FREAKIN' GOD! I thought that was a typo, but you're RIGHT, I never thought of that! EEEKK! That'd be so cool if that were true!!! I noticed his tattoo was a bird, but I just connected it to his kudan, but there is a marking on all of Sakura's feathers, too! Oh my god! (I TOLD my friend his tattoo was a bird... She's all like: "Noo it's just a design!") So HA! Stupid friend.. Maaaan, Ruby-chan makes awesome theories... OK, that makes a way better fanfic than the previous thing mentioned.... I'm gonna be thinking about this for weeks now... (If it were true, that'd be INSANELY awesome...)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 06:12 am
Quote from: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:10 am
Fai's Tatoo was a bird in the shap of his Kudan .. Wings spread with its head to the left ... ( Me thinks )

I would be strang seeing that though .. Think of poor poor .. Kuro-mu ! Seeing Fai turn into A feather... ! OMG ! I'd cry !

LOL I just said a similar thing to you right after your post... (About the Kudan thing)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:14 am
Lol.. Great minds think alike .. But its true .. go look at any of the Tattos pictures.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 06:17 am
Quote from: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:14 am
Lol.. Great minds think alike .. But its true .. go look at any of the Tattos pictures.

*nods* Yeah, I know it's a pwetty birdy, it's just my annoying "friend" doesn't.... *growls* But, since we're talking about it, did anyone notice that that same bird is on Ashura's coffin-looking thing? Isn't that interesting... (My friend disagreed to THAT, too... Friend: No, it's a totally different symbol, and Fai's isn't even a BIRD. Yuki: YES IT FREAKIN' IS! *vein*) You guys can prolly tell I don't actually like this friend, can't you? XD *sweatdrop*
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:20 am
^_________________^ "
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 06:21 am
Quote from: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:20 am
^_________________^ "

XD
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on September 01 2005, 06:37 am
You know, I just had a thought. We still have no proof that Ashura's evil. Everyone just assumes it., because Fai shut him up in the coffin.

What if he did that to save Ashura's life, and that's why he's running? Because Ashura will follow him because he loves him, and Fai's scared that he'll hurt the king? It sounds far fetched, I know, but it was just a random thought.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Hori on September 01 2005, 06:51 am
hmm... You lot know more that I do ..
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 01 2005, 04:38 pm
Auugh all of these theories are making my head hurt... I HAVE to see what the next world they go to is, PLEASE let it be Fai/Ashura related!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on September 02 2005, 09:18 am
but if Fye is a feather... then why didnt Mokona realised it?
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Ruby Chan on September 02 2005, 05:05 pm
Maybe that's why he won't use magic now....because Mokona will sense it without his tattoo?

But anyway, Ashura (if he really is evil) is probably a very cunning person, so I can just see him changing forms of things to turn it to his advantage!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on September 02 2005, 11:11 pm
but in the manga, the other female Ashura was good..

perhaps they are related?

yeah, probably if Fye uses his magic.. Mokona will be able to sense it.. *hmm* probably this may be season 1 cliffhanging final episode...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 03 2005, 01:30 am
Quote from: bLuetopaz on September 02 2005, 11:11 pm
but in the manga, the other female Ashura was good..

perhaps they are related?

yeah, probably if Fye uses his magic.. Mokona will be able to sense it.. *hmm* probably this may be season 1 cliffhanging final episode...

That Ashura wasn't female... It's erm.. Both. It ain't a boy and it ain't a girl... And yes, they are related, that Ashura is Ashura-ou's 'son'. In RG Veda, they call it his 'son' so I usually say 'he' when talking about either one of them. But you two both made a good point, maybe it would take Fai using his magic for Moko to sense it... That'd be cool...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on September 04 2005, 07:09 am
Quote from: AkaiYuki on September 03 2005, 01:30 am
That Ashura wasn't female... It's erm.. Both. It ain't a boy and it ain't a girl... And yes, they are related, that Ashura is Ashura-ou's 'son'. In RG Veda, they call it his 'son' so I usually say 'he' when talking about either one of them. But you two both made a good point, maybe it would take Fai using his magic for Moko to sense it... That'd be cool...

hehe.. im a little confuse.. you mean the sleeping Ashura is Ashura-ou's son? or is it the other way around?

thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 04 2005, 07:48 am
No no, Fai's Ashura is Ashura-ou, the feminine Ashura is Ashura-ou's son...In RG Veda, that is. However, in TRC, so far there has been no mention of Fai's Ashura having a son. However, Fai *might* know the feminine Ashura even if they aren't related in TRC because of this:

Show content
When Fai and Kuro go to Shurano/Sharano.. I forget which one... The god in that country is called Ashura-ou, but it is *not* Fai's Ashura, it's the feminine one. So far in TRC we don't know if fem. Ashura is Fai's Ashura's son. But, apparently Fai might know fem. Ashura because when the people talked about fem. Ashura, Kuro said Fai had a certain look in his eyes. Right when Fai was about to explain it, they were interrupted by another person. So, do to that, we don't know what Fai's relationship to that Ashura was.

DANG that was a long spoiler.[/color]
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on September 04 2005, 10:17 am
oic.. thanks for the info (again)!

too bad Fye and the fem. Ashura did not meet in Shurano.. if not, we will be able to know more about them..
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 04 2005, 10:22 am
Quote from: bLuetopaz on September 04 2005, 10:17 am
oic.. thanks for the info (again)!

too bad Fye and the fem. Ashura did not meet in Shurano.. if not, we will be able to know more about them..

I KNOW! I was so mad about that! Back then I thought, "FINALLY a Fai-related world!" As soon as I saw Ashura I was SURE it was gonna be all Fai for at least two chapters! Then... *vein* There was none... In fact, in several Shurano/Sharano chapters, there was no Fai OR Kurorin in the chapter at ALL... *vein vein* But whatever his relationship is with this Ashura, if he has one at all, it must not have been bad because he didn't have a very dramatic reaction. (Which I hope he has if we ever see his Ashura! I love drama! XD)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: bLuetopaz on September 04 2005, 10:29 am
yeah.. i also thought that part of the manga will focus more on Fye.. but nope and worst, so little Kuro-san and Fye-san.. they also did not say anything more about Yasha-ou..

that same part only focus on the fem. Ashura, Yuuko, Syaoran, Sakura and Mokona.. and i was a little surprised that the fem. Ashura knew Yuuko..
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 04 2005, 11:55 am
Yeah, I was, too... I just can't believe Fai and Kuro could've POSSIBLY been in that world together for SIX months without Fai learning ANY of the language, without a single mention of Fai's Ashura (unless he's not in that world...), or without any.... heh heh... shounen-ai... events... ocurring... Or maybe that last one is just me...
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Domeki-kun on September 10 2005, 06:18 am
I think that Ashura is creepy bastard. And that he has done something terrible to Fai. Do you think that he is a gay?He really looks like one. XD
(http://www.capturedwings.net/forums/Themes/SS returns/images/warnwarn.gif) Posting flame baiting and insulting posts.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Grim Reaper on September 10 2005, 06:23 am
It is possible in Clamp's works.  They have more yaoi couples then straight. When you read Clamp, get use to it!
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on September 10 2005, 08:48 am
Heh heh, I hope SOMEBODY is! *wink wink* *points to avatar*
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Jeannette on October 18 2005, 11:40 am
Umm... Well, I personally think that the Ashura from Shurano and Fai's Ashura are the same person in so far as the share the same soul/personality/core; they are different versions of the same person, as we've seen countless times before in Tsubasa.  I suppose it's possible that they're not- that one is the other's father or whatever, but I really don't see any evidence to support that.

Read this bit from Chapter 72:

Kurogane: You still haven't met that someone from your world, have you? The reason you keep running away. It's the same face... However, it's not necessarily the same person.

Fai (with the single most angsty look he's EVER HAD):I would know... if it's just the same face or if it's the same person. I would know.

Another translation of same bit:

Kurogane: Well, you haven't met yours, either, have you? Your little reason why you're on the run. But if he's got the same face... You might not be able to tell.

Fai (with the single most angsty look he's ever had- I really can't express just how angsty and hot it is): I'd know. I'd know if he just looked the same or if it were really him. I would know.

This entire conversation is started because they've just met Piffle Country's version of Tomoyo. Fai had just commented how that Tomoyo looked exactly like Kuro's Tomoyo but wasn't actually the same person. The whole sharing-the-same-soul-but-living completely-different-lives thing.

Kuro comments back about how he (Fai) hadn't met the person he's running away from (Ashura) either. He is almost certainly refering to the version of Ashura they met in Shurano and the fact that he looked exactly like the Ashura Fai had sealed away. *IF* the Shurano Ashura and Ashura that Fai sealed are not different versions of each other, how much sense does this conversation make?

Besides, to have TWO different souls with the name Ashura would confuse things far, far far too much, even for Clamp. Clamp loves to pull weird crap, but that would just be unnecessarily complicated, as if Tsubasa weren't complicated enough with all its different versions of the same soul. No, I definitely think that they are simply two versions of the same person. If not, that would absolutely over-complicate things. There is such a thing as too much complexity, and that would, I think cross the line. It would serve no purpose whatsoever that I can think of.

Somebody earlier mentioned about Fai's Ashura and Shurano's Ashura having different hairstyles- well, Piffle-World Tomoyo has a completely different hairstyle from Kuro-Tomoyo. Hairstyle by itself is not a reliable way to distinguish between characters.

Somebody also said earlier that Fai wasn't scared of Ashura... Well, you can certainly interpret things however you want, but personally, if Fai weren't scared of Ashura, why exactly is Fai running from him? Because he's scared for Ashura, trying to protect Ashura? That has some validity, but I'm far from convinced.

My pet theory is that Fai and Ashura were lovers, along with Fai being his wizard. Ashura, however, did something or another, or a great deal or something or anothers, and Fai eventually was forced to betray and seal him away to prevent Ashura from inflicting any more evil on the world. Thus, why Fai is so angsty and depressed- he was forced to betray the man/woman/whatever he had deeply loved and respected.

And I don't think that Fai was a prince or anything. First, Chii calling Fai 'King'? That was a mistranslation (thanks a lot, DelRay). Plus, you know how the beginning of each chapter starts with a sketch of a character(s) along with a little catchphrase? Well, I'm ninety percent certain that one had a picture of Fai, and said mentioned something about 'sealing his master.' Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure.

I too believe that Fai and Kuro haven't told the whole truth about Shurano. If they couldn't talk, then how did they come up with their plan to pretend not to know Syaoran on the battlefield? They must, at some point, have been able to communicate. Whether they talked about Ashura or not, I don't know. Maybe.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Meowzy on October 18 2005, 08:06 pm
but it's really obvious that fem. Ashura and Ashura from Ceres country are not the some person. i mean, come on! just place them next to each other and compare.
Ashura from Shura country is incredibly femine and his hair is a bit different too. also, he's much more... slender.
Ashura-ou from Ceres country has these odd jewels on his forehead (though those could represent a crown or something...), and he looks a whole lot... larger. he's just built bigger and manlier than feminine Ashura from Shura country.
let's not forget the fact that Shura Ashura looks a bit younger.

so i agree when people say Ceres country Ashura represents the father from RG Veda, and Shura country Ashura represents the son.
i've never read RG Veda though. it's such an expensive manga... i can't afford it. ^^'

when it comes down to personality however, I don't know. Shura Ashura could have the same personality Ceres Ashura (once) had. But Fai never met Shura Ashura, except for in battle. So he wouldn't recognise that personality. (hence coming back to the conversation in Pfiffle)
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Jeannette on October 19 2005, 03:09 pm
If you remember, the statue of the goddess Ashura that they have in Sharano looks different from the Ashura we actually meet in Shurano. The goddess they worship in the Yuuka district has MUCH lighter hair color, and is drawn a bit more feminine that the Ashura in Shurano (yes, it is possible to make Ashura look even more feminine). Yet, the Ashura of the past and Ashura the Goddess of Sharano are one and the same. Remember, Ashura is very, very, very androgynous. Why wouldn't s/he look more masculine in one world and more feminine in another? Besides, how much of Fai's Ashura have we seen? Only a few shots here and there. As I said, it's possible they are two completely different souls. It's entirely possible that I'm completely, utterly wrong. But, as I said in my last post, I think that to have two different souls with the same name would be... really, really pointlessly confusing. Having one soul living in two different worlds is confusing enough.  To have the father/child distinction would just add a really silly layer that would add no true depth to the story. Plus, I believe the conversation in Piffle is clearer and more consistent if one takes my view. And I have a strong faith in Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the most correct, even in Clamp. There is definitely a point where further complexity just becomes cumbersome and pointless, as I said.
Of course, this is Clamp.Therefore, until we have more evidence, I'll stick to my guns.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: kolaida on October 21 2005, 07:25 am
This was the most hilarious thing to read! XD  I absolutely love the idea of Fai being a feather! OMG! Could you just see the looks on Kurogane, Syaoran, and Sakura's faces if Fai were to just, like.... go *poof* and there's like a feather where Fai used to be?! That would be so priceless!  Didn't Syaoran say something about Fai being able to dodge things like he were a feather or piece of paper or something (somewhere in volume 2; can't remember the exact wording).  But, wow, that would be great. Now, I half hope he IS a feather because I've never seen a person turned into a feather or viceversa! That would rock!   Although, it would be very weird. O_O But still neat!

I honestly hope Ashura doesn't follow Fai through different dimensions because they were lovers. That would just be so--- mushy.  And, I don't know, I mean if Ashura is a king of a country why would he live his kindgom to go chase after one person? I mean, this one person must've really irritated the living daylights out of him and even if it were love then why would the other person be on the run from him. Unless Ashura's a king with no country anymore and it's thanks to this one person?  I mean, I could see dimension travel for that purpose, but other stuff  just seems kind of.....overdramatic. And then there were dead bodies lying around in the Fai intro.  But I really want to see, like, Ashura on a mad mission of vengeance or something along those lines. I'd also like it if Ashura turned out to be a "good guy" as well.

Also, I figured Chi calling Fai "king" might be a mistranslation.  But, on the same token, since Fai made Chi, I guess there really isn't anything wrong with her calling him her king.  Also, the back of the first book refers to Fai as a ruler of his land. I don't know if that was a mistranslation or spoiler slipup.  And I realize he introduces himself as wizard, but no one said he couldn't be both, right? ^^ But it is possible that maybe he and Ashura were at war or something? I mean, does he ever flat out call Ashura *his* King? (I haven't read every volume out) I know he says "King Ashura" but here, in the US, we refer to royalty in other countries as "Prince soandso, Princess soandso, etc" but we never mean it as *our* prince, princess, king or queen.  Of course, I am just completely rambling now.

I have a feeling that when Fai's past is revealed concerning his connections to Ashura there will be plenty of gray lines and I doubt Fai will be completely innocent. Also, I think, somehow, Kurogane's lesson about unnecessary death will really come to light at this point. I could be completely wrong, though. Ah, yeah, I also noticed that the markings on Fai's back and Ashura's little--what is that called--watercoffin?? were the same.  Also, I won't be surprised if Ashura has a feather.

Eh, but I really would find it funny if Fai were a feather! That would just be hilarious!  Wow, that was long. *sweatdrop* Sorry. I ramble.
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: Meowzy on October 22 2005, 06:23 am
*flips back a few pages*
Fai being a feather? Har har! yeah, i never linked Fai's tattoo to the feathers. But if he were a feather, and the tattoo was removed, what kind of consequences would that have?
and better yet, would Kurogane cry if the feather was returned to Sakura's body? XD
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: AkaiYuki on October 25 2005, 05:25 am
Hmmm.. I haven't totally read everything that's been added here, ((Because they're so looong!!!)) But I believe there has been some Ashura confusion going on in here! Celes' Ashura, in RG Veda, is Ashura-OU, and the other Ashura is just Ashura. Because femme Ashura is Ashura-ou's SON. ((It has no gender, but it is addressed as his son in RG Veda)) What I think is causing confusion here is in Tsubasa, they're both addressed as Ashura-ou. The Ashura is Shurano and the statue in Sharano ARE the same guy, because the statue is just a statue of him. ((I also saw something about light hair color mentioned? Ashura's hair color never changed, if anyone thought he suddenly went blonde, it was probably because it was a statue so it's grey, making it look blondish in manga...)) And Meowzy-chan, If Fai IS a feather, or if ANYTHING bad happens to him, Kuro BETTER cry or CLAMP is in for some major trouble when I meet them! *growls*
Title: Re: Ashura
Post by: kiumi flowrite on June 29 2008, 01:45 pm
*EXTREAM SPOILERS!!!*

you see in the beginning Ashura was meant to be evil, fei wang reed tricked fai into being his minion by killing his brother and placing 3 curses on him, and so someone was sent BY FEI-WANG REED to get fai, that was Ashura, but ashura fell in love with fai and gave him the tattoo to control his magic and temporarily rid him of 1 of his curses, Ashura killed everyone in Seresu after making Fai promise to destroy anything that hurt Seresu he knew that fei-wang reed would get rid off the tattoo so by making fai kill him he rid fai of that curse permanently, but Fai couldn't bring himself to kill Ashura and sealed him in sleep...but Ashura would eventually wake up